Bronco Type XXIII in 1/35th scale

[roedj]

I don't know the answer to this question but does anyone know if the original Type XXIII had trouble with the same problem?

Dan

[goshawk823]

You would think. But, obviously not.

Just got back from running it with the corrected thrust line. No change. Pitches down when underway in submerged trim.

Now, one thing I'm doing that most don't do: The two big square holes where the shutter doors normally fair in with the hull are not present on this model -- I had planned to later equip it with practical torpedoes. Maybe that is contributing some sort of turbulence that works to push the bow down. I'll check it later in the day when the heat dies down a bit.

M

That sure seems like it could contribute to pushing the bow down... them's two big holes.
-sam

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Just got back from a trial run with tape covering the open torpedo exit points. Not a Tinker's bit of difference -- still dives uncontrollably above a critical submerged speed. I'll play with the stern plane linkage some more, but I'm out of ideas, boys and girls. I hate this boat!!!!!!!!

Gotta hang it up and get back to production work before Mike skins me alive.

M

[redboat219]

Don't tell me I'll need to cancel my Type 23 order from my local hobby shop!

I think you should get your hands on a stable working 32nd Parallel Type 23 and look how it's laid out.

[redboat219]

Here's David Welch's Bronco Models Type 23 conversion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS9UIffOD6k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

As you can see he's driving without the torpedo tube shutters in place.

[MFR1964]

The only thing i had noticed in the books, is the fast divingtime, if done too quickly you could loose your boat.

David, where is your CG located, still far away from the middle?, if so, try to get it under the conningtower, when you have succeeded that, place two pieces of styrodure foam high inside your tower, and run her again.

Manfred.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Don't tell me I'll need to cancel my Type 23 order from my local hobby shop!

I think you should get your hands on a stable working 32nd Parallel Type 23 and look how it's laid out.

Might be a good idea till I work out what's happening here. Maybe you should go with the Welsh conversion?

M

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The only thing i had noticed in the books, is the fast divingtime, if done too quickly you could loose your boat.

David, where is your CG located, still far away from the middle?, if so, try to get it under the conningtower, when you have succeeded that, place two pieces of styrodure foam high inside your tower, and run her again.

Manfred.

I started with the c.g. one inch behind the leading edge of the tower, then progressively moved the c.g. (and the center of buoyancy along with it, of course) to the point where it is now, three inches in front of the tower. The un-commanded steep dive angle operating submerged occurred no matter the location of the c.g.

I don't see how making the tower super-buoyant will help, as the center of the sail is well behind the c.g. on this type submarine.

However, at this point, I'm grasping at straws and will give your proposal serious consideration when I again engage this beast in bloody combat. Your input is always appreciated, my friend.

David

[Kazzer]

Might be a good idea till I work out what's happening here. Maybe you should go with the Welsh conversion?

M

Blasphemy! Get back to work and fix it. Good grief! Swearing Smiley

[vital.spark]

David,

A couple of thoughts. The bow plane guards are very wide on the XXIII and perhaps they are angled slightly downward or have a large effect once the bow drops? The other things I have noticed with Kevin's ADF2 is that you must set the zero bubble, I use a level when I set mine up but I've found things can go wrong. When the equiptment trays in the bigger boats are rotated the bubble angel can change! The small Skipjack is more of a problem as there is no equiptment tray and the inner workings can be rotated 180 degrees which can upset the zero bubble a lot? Could be there is not just one problem but a combination of several?

Myron

[MFR1964]

David,

I had the same problem with my V80, that boat had the same tendency, by placing a piece of foam inside your tower you create a pivotpoint on which the boat can hinge.
I know it sounds odd, but this worked for me, it raised the underwaterspeed at peroscope depth with 30%, my CG with that boat is exactly under the tower.
Hang in there buddy, within a few months i can run my boat to see if she has the same tendency.


Manfred.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Blasphemy! Get back to work and fix it. Good grief! Swearing Smiley

Gotta fill some orders or Jon will skin me alive. I'll get back to the Type-23 this weekend, Boss (By the way, this is your model, I don't care if it catches fire and sinks bow-first a smoldering hulk!). We still on for October? Just heard from Fred, he'll be here.

M

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,

A couple of thoughts. The bow plane guards are very wide on the XXIII and perhaps they are angled slightly downward or have a large effect once the bow drops? The other things I have noticed with Kevin's ADF2 is that you must set the zero bubble, I use a level when I set mine up but I've found things can go wrong. When the equiptment trays in the bigger boats are rotated the bubble angel can change! The small Skipjack is more of a problem as there is no equiptment tray and the inner workings can be rotated 180 degrees which can upset the zero bubble a lot? Could be there is not just one problem but a combination of several?

Myron

Myron,

The fixed forward stabilizers (more correctly defines as bow-plane guards) are of very low surface area, so I don't believe they do much to exacerbate the down-pitch, but you do raise them as a possible contributor of the current problem -- food for thought.

Yes, a combination of things going on here. I'm going to increase the stern plane throw back to where it was, move the c.g. back an inch or so, and try it again. This weekend. Gotta fill some orders during the week.

This Type-23 is presenting the biggest challenge I've encountered since getting into the r/c submarine game. It's ****ing me off!

M

[redboat219]

Hopefully you'll figure things out by the time I get my 23...

[Scott T]

I have only spent a few minutes on the controls of a borrowed sub. So let these
coments go if they are not worth anything.
Could you adjust your trim sliders on your radio at critical speed to give the
dive plane some rise to compensate for the diving? Like trim wheel controls on an airplane.

Drop a fishing weight in the stern to make it tail heavy to start with and see if there
is any change.

And just for fun maybe its like a B-52 bomber and flys nose low-tail high.
:pop