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Another ARKMODEL VII Build Blog

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  • #76
    One last poke at the bear, Rob. It looks like you're setting up your planes to both dive or surface in tandem. We all talked about how this will negate any control over the pitch of your boat already, so I won't go back there again, but more from an operational enjoyment perspective, you'll find that putting the planes in opposition to each other will get the boat down and up again in a shorter period of time, which is going to be imperative for you in your pool environment. Faster dives and surfaces means more fun for you!

    Bob

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    • #77
      Originally posted by SubHuman View Post
      One last poke at the bear, Rob. It looks like you're setting up your planes to both dive or surface in tandem. We all talked about how this will negate any control over the pitch of your boat already, so I won't go back there again, but more from an operational enjoyment perspective, you'll find that putting the planes in opposition to each other will get the boat down and up again in a shorter period of time, which is going to be imperative for you in your pool environment. Faster dives and surfaces means more fun for you!

      Bob
      I hear what you are saying Bob! And thank you for the input!

      Most on this forum that I do have contact with understand that I work outside of the tried and true methods of building submarines. Not trying to change the norm! I just like to try new things to see how they work, and understanding that most of the time my ideas do not work! But that's the fun of this hobby for me. Experimentation, it is also a means of learning!

      My off the wall dive plane experiment can be changed in an instant. That's why I used a "Y" connector on the forward bow planes. All I have to do is plug the bow plane servo into another open channel on the receiver and we are back to the norm again!

      As always Bob, I do appreciate your help and input, but I do have to try it! :-))

      Rob
      "Firemen can stand the heat"
      Last edited by rwtdiver; 04-12-2022, 02:16 PM.

      Comment


      • #78
        Look at how the forward and rear planes move and how the sub behaves.
         
        Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by redboat219 View Post
          Look at how the forward and rear planes move and how the sub behaves.
          Romel,

          I totally get it already!! I have posted this a half dozen times now! It's and experiment! I simply want to try the bow planes and the stern planes in tandem, and using the ballast system to get the sub to set in the water at about 1/2" from the deck being a wash and then applying very little throttle with both the bow planes and the stern planes in a diving position and watch the boat travel the full 30' of my pool to see if it will at least dive to 1" or so up the sail before hitting the other end of the pool!

          Everything I am doing is just Experimenting to see what it does! I do not have the luxury of a lake, pond, or even a big pool, so I make do with what I have! This is how I enjoy this hobby, and it is getting to the point where I do not want to post anymore because I know that my unorthodox methods of building a submarine are not in keeping with the norm!!!!

          Rob
          "Firemen can stand the heat"
          Last edited by rwtdiver; 04-13-2022, 03:00 AM.

          Comment


          • #80
            Rob,


            No one is attacking your methodology. There is just some experience out there with the setup that you're going for that resulted in non-optimal performance, and that was trying to be related back to you before you inadvertently went that route. Please rest assured, comments were made with the best of intentions.

            That said, you were very clear that you were going to try this and get empirical evidence as to the performance for yourself. I'll be the first to defend your right to do anything you want with your boat, and public opinion be damned.

            Set it up as you envision. get her in the water, and report back here, please! Your dedication to out of the box thinking is the same that has pushed out hobby forward many times during the decades it's been around. Stay the course!

            Bob

            Comment


            • #81
              At least in my opinion, encouragement is better than criticism. Most people don't have professional equipment, they may only have simple tools to support the hobby, but that's enough, what they need most is to get the fun they want, this has little to do with being professional or not. Forgive me for stating the fact that the RC submarine hobby has become old and most young people are not willing to spend a lot of time and experience using their own hands to make models, which has been discussed on this forum before. What we would prefer is for those involved in the hobby to stick with it, rather than forcing them to do something they don't want to or can't afford to do at the moment. It is sad to lose a former participant in a hobby(Yes, the number of people involved in this hobby is really not much).

              Comment


              • #82
                I ran into an issue with the 80mm WTC for my Type Vll build!

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                The caps on the original drive shaft bushing would come unscrewed during operation. The cap with seal on the shaft are threaded. When the motors turned in reverse or forward one or the other caps would unscrew themselves! Bob had a suggestion on his YouTube build up of the 80mm WTC, that you apply CA (just a little) to the cap and the thread. It did not work! If you applied to much CA and it would be impossible to change the seal if it ever required replacement!

                So needless to say I did remove both drive shaft bushing and I will replace them with a new drive shaft seal system!

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                My question? Could I use either the 1/8" or 3/16" oil filled bronze bushing with cups seals to use as my drive shaft seals?

                Rob
                "Firemen can stand the heat"

                Comment


                • #83
                  Sure, but may i ask you are using brass for the shaft instead of stainless steel?

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by JHapprich View Post
                    Sure, but may i ask you are using brass for the shaft instead of stainless steel?
                    Jorg, thank you for chiming in!

                    I have seen brass used as shafts, but if stainless is better I would for sure go that route, no problem there. Could you give me your reasoning as to why one would be better than the other? I could see that the brass might bend or twist in a stressed situation!?

                    Rob
                    "Firemen can stand the heat"

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      I was helping a gentleman who had an issue, as he ran his sub, he was seeing the motor begin to struggle up to the point of seizing. I recommended he change from brass to stainless steel because I believed he was having a metal expansion issue. As the brass heated up from friction it was causing more binding. He switched over to SS and issue disappeared. There are other things like corrosion, but I want to see Joerg’s reason.
                      If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        It is simply too soft and you cannot have its polish ramain stainless. It is not rigid enough, it could bend on higher rpm's. The shaft seal will cut a groove into the shaft around the sealing (yes, rubber cuts brass! It will polish/grind out the sealing surface).better Go for proper stainless rod and make your own shaft or use rtr shafts.

                        Trout, i believe you are right. Should that brass shaft fit tight in the bearing, it would cause binding right there.

                        Try a brass sheet with a hole, a brass rod of the same hole diameter, put that in the drillpress and punch through the sheet at say 1000 rpm. Will bind and go "knarrzz"

                        Jörg
                        Last edited by JHapprich; 04-20-2022, 07:35 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by James Wittaker View Post
                          At least in my opinion, encouragement is better than criticism. Most people don't have professional equipment, they may only have simple tools to support the hobby, but that's enough, what they need most is to get the fun they want, this has little to do with being professional or not. Forgive me for stating the fact that the RC submarine hobby has become old and most young people are not willing to spend a lot of time and experience using their own hands to make models, which has been discussed on this forum before. What we would prefer is for those involved in the hobby to stick with it, rather than forcing them to do something they don't want to or can't afford to do at the moment. It is sad to lose a former participant in a hobby(Yes, the number of people involved in this hobby is really not much).
                          Criticism, accompanied by a complete, ruthless, and detailed critique -- issued by someone who actually knows the subject -- is infinitely better than useless, feel-good encouragement!

                          Gentle cooing sounds teach nothing. Burnt hands, and hands-on training teach forever.

                          David
                          The Horrible
                          Resident Luddite

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Jorg, Trout, and David, thank you all for the input here!

                            I have ordered up the polished K & S stainless steel for my new shafts.

                            Rob
                            "Firemen can stand the heat"
                            Last edited by rwtdiver; 04-20-2022, 03:18 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              I have a question about the "cup" seal itself?

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                              Would it enhance the sealing effect to install two cup seals with the oil-filled bronze bushing? Or will one be adequate? Also, would putting another oil-filled bronze bushing in the outboard end of the bushing be advised? Or will this be overkill?

                              Rob
                              "Firemen can stand the heat"
                              Last edited by rwtdiver; 04-20-2022, 02:48 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                One cup seal will be fine, two bushings will be good, but not necessary. It would be beneficial to have one in the prop strut or one between the WTC and motor. I remember someone, might have been David or another founding father type that recommended at least two bushings along a. prop shaft.
                                If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                                Comment

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