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  • rwtdiver
    Vice Admiral
    • Feb 2019
    • 1821

    #61
    Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named

    Right stick: left-right, rudder; up-down, bow planes

    Left stick: left-right, nothing; up-down, throttle

    Back buttons on left side: stern planes

    Back buttons on right side: ballast flood-drain/blow

    David
    Thank you David for the clarification on the proper set up on the VEX TX!

    Click image for larger version

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    Would you verify from the drawing that I have it correct? It will take me sometime to get to know this set up. I am going back into all my subs and reset them all to this set up.

    Thanks again for all the help!

    Rob
    "Firemen can stand the heat"

    Comment

    • He Who Shall Not Be Named
      Moderator
      • Aug 2008
      • 12402

      #62
      Originally posted by rwtdiver

      Thank you David for the clarification on the proper set up on the VEX TX!

      Click image for larger version

Name:	ARKMODEL VEX 2.jpg
Views:	274
Size:	62.8 KB
ID:	160765

      Would you verify from the drawing that I have it correct? It will take me sometime to get to know this set up. I am going back into all my subs and reset them all to this set up.

      Thanks again for all the help!

      Rob
      "Firemen can stand the heat"
      Bingo!......
      Who is John Galt?

      Comment

      • rwtdiver
        Vice Admiral
        • Feb 2019
        • 1821

        #63
        Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named

        Bingo!......
        Short and sweet, and always to the point!! Thanks David!! :-))

        Rob
        "Firemen can stand the heat"

        Comment

        • RCSubGuy
          Welcome to my underwater realm!
          • Aug 2009
          • 1793

          #64
          Late to the game, as usual, but my two cents:

          Way back when I first started building my Disney Nautilus from scratch, I obsessed over this topic as well and came up with the same thought as you did, Rob. Why not have both sets of planes set to dive or surface at the same time in order to achieve a level movement?

          The fact of the matter is that you'll never achieve equal force from both sets of control surfaces in relation to the boat's center of buoyancy. If your stern planes had more authority than your bow planes, for example, you'll go to dive, the rear planes will bite harder, and the boat will submerge stern-first, changing the angle of attack to the water, and causing the boat to drop at the rear while the bow breaches surface, despite the best efforts of the bow planes to pull her under.

          Likewise, if the bow planes had more authority, the bow would drop and she'd be crash diving to the bottom. With no ability to affect pitch, you're at the mercy of hydrodynamics and static buoyancy.

          The simplest setup would be to fix the bow planes and use the stern planes for depth keeping. Note I said depth keeping and didn't add angle keeping as you'll find you'll be constantly porpoising as you hunt for depth. Using stern planes means you get full and immediate authority over pitch as soon as the throttle is applied.

          A better setup would be two channels. Use bow planes 90% of the time to pull the boat to depth. Use the stern plane's trim to finely adjust the trim of the boat when underway.

          The best is, as we've said before, bow planes for depth and stern planes on an AD2 for autonomous pitch. You want simple? Just forget the stern planes and let them do their job. Keep them on CH6 so you can override if you want to crash dive or emergency surface, but for the most part, just forget about them.


          Bob

          Comment

          • wlambing
            Commander
            • Nov 2020
            • 295

            #65
            Bob's point regarding the stern planes is right on! They will always override the bow planes, as they have 4x the surface area.

            Comment

            • rwtdiver
              Vice Admiral
              • Feb 2019
              • 1821

              #66
              In order to put my ideas into some sort of perspective, I need to start out with this!

              Click image for larger version

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              This is the ONLY place I have to run my submarines! This is all do to health issues that I have! That being said I try to design how my submarines that will operate in this pool environment and have some semblance as to how an actual submarine will operate.

              I do a lot of experimentation to see what will work best in 30 feet!

              Click image for larger version

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              Thats why I came up with this ideal. This was a design for the Type VII only! Both the bow and stern dive planes are far below the water line on that boat. (Fact: The stern planes do not have 4x the surface area as the bow planes on the Type VII) None the less, I understand what you are trying to say, but for me to get my boats to operate as close to the real thing I have to do some totally different thinking and design work to attain this reality!

              I work around my water environment (our pool) as best I can, knowing full well what I do may not sit to well with the established principles of submarine operation. I also set myself up to some criticism because I put a lot of my submarine building up on this forum as to how I do things.

              I may just go back to my original ARKMODEL Type VII design (photo above) and using it and some different methods of controlling the dive planes and the ballast system together.

              Who knows! I might just come up with something that will really work well in a small pool environment!??

              Thanks as always for all the advice and help. We all do things a little different and for different reasons!

              Rob
              "Firemen can stand the heat"

              Comment

              • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                Moderator
                • Aug 2008
                • 12402

                #67
                Originally posted by rwtdiver
                In order to put my ideas into some sort of perspective, I need to start out with this!

                Click image for larger version

Name:	ARKMODEL POOL 1.jpg
Views:	259
Size:	69.0 KB
ID:	160785

                This is the ONLY place I have to run my submarines! This is all do to health issues that I have! That being said I try to design how my submarines that will operate in this pool environment and have some semblance as to how an actual submarine will operate.

                I do a lot of experimentation to see what will work best in 30 feet!

                Click image for larger version

Name:	ARKMODEL Y 2.jpg
Views:	224
Size:	54.4 KB
ID:	160786

                Thats why I came up with this ideal. This was a design for the Type VII only! Both the bow and stern dive planes are far below the water line on that boat. (Fact: The stern planes do not have 4x the surface area as the bow planes on the Type VII) None the less, I understand what you are trying to say, but for me to get my boats to operate as close to the real thing I have to do some totally different thinking and design work to attain this reality!

                I work around my water environment (our pool) as best I can, knowing full well what I do may not sit to well with the established principles of submarine operation. I also set myself up to some criticism because I put a lot of my submarine building up on this forum as to how I do things.

                I may just go back to my original ARKMODEL Type VII design (photo above) and using it and some different methods of controlling the dive planes and the ballast system together.

                Who knows! I might just come up with something that will really work well in a small pool environment!??

                Thanks as always for all the advice and help. We all do things a little different and for different reasons!

                Rob
                "Firemen can stand the heat"
                Seeing the small body of water you have to use. Consider smaller type r/c model submarines.










                Who is John Galt?

                Comment

                • rwtdiver
                  Vice Admiral
                  • Feb 2019
                  • 1821

                  #68
                  Hi David,

                  I do understand totally what you are saying!

                  Click image for larger version  Name:	Nautilus two.jpg Views:	0 Size:	73.9 KB ID:	160792Click image for larger version  Name:	Nautilus one.jpg Views:	0 Size:	68.6 KB ID:	160793

                  I did have some good success with my 1:77 scale Nautilus. It followed the perimeter of the pool quite well! But I just have this fascination with the bigger boats, and they are somewhat easier to build! (Old age and poor eyesight for building) Like old Clint Eastwood always said "A man has got to know his limitations"

                  David you sure have me thinking that my next boat will be purely for running in the pool! Thank you for the advice, I think I will start looking!!

                  But in the meantime, I will finish up the Type VII!

                  Rob
                  "Firemen can stand the heat"

                  Comment

                  • neitosub
                    Lieutenant Commander
                    • Nov 2021
                    • 129

                    #69
                    Hi Rob,

                    I would say just connect the bow planes like you did in your diagram and see what happens, just for the fun of it and experimentation! By varying the length of the bellcrank on the bow plane linkage, you can get them to rotate at a different angle than the stern planes for the same transmitter stick input (i.e stern planes have max 30 degrees of deflection, but bow planes only have max 10 degrees), it would be interesting to see in a pool environment.

                    Even though I keep my bow planes stationary, I always install the diving plane linkages anyways, in case I want to actuate them with a servo later on.

                    Nate

                    Comment

                    • rwtdiver
                      Vice Admiral
                      • Feb 2019
                      • 1821

                      #70
                      Originally posted by neitosub
                      Hi Rob,

                      I would say just connect the bow planes like you did in your diagram and see what happens, just for the fun of it and experimentation! By varying the length of the bellcrank on the bow plane linkage, you can get them to rotate at a different angle than the stern planes for the same transmitter stick input (i.e stern planes have max 30 degrees of deflection, but bow planes only have max 10 degrees), it would be interesting to see in a pool environment.

                      Even though I keep my bow planes stationary, I always install the diving plane linkages anyways, in case I want to actuate them with a servo later on.

                      Nate
                      Nate,

                      Thank you for your input! I am going to tie the bow and stern dive planes together using the "Y" connector. Like you said it would be very simple to just change over to a two channel system from a one channel.

                      Still have a lot to do on this boat! I will be sure to follow up as to how the dive plane designs work out. Now back to the build!!

                      Rob
                      "Firemen can stand the heat"

                      Comment

                      • rwtdiver
                        Vice Admiral
                        • Feb 2019
                        • 1821

                        #71
                        Today I finished up all the wiring on the WTC. Note: Everything works perfect!! :-))

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                        Click image for larger version  Name:	ARKMODEL WTC W 1.jpg Views:	31 Size:	83.9 KB ID:	160811

                        The only thing I have left to do with the WTC itself is to install the Bow Plane servo and linkage.

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                        The servo will be mounted to the battery compartment end cap, either with a servo bracket or mounted directly flat to the end cap as Bob Martin did on the video he has out on the 80mm WTC.

                        Rob
                        "Firemen can stand the heat"
                        Last edited by rwtdiver; 04-10-2022, 06:46 PM.

                        Comment

                        • RCSubGuy
                          Welcome to my underwater realm!
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 1793

                          #72
                          Piccy's no showy!

                          Comment

                          • goshawk823
                            Lieutenant Commander
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 214

                            #73
                            Originally posted by SubHuman
                            Piccy's no showy!
                            I can see them in the post above yours...

                            Comment

                            • rwtdiver
                              Vice Admiral
                              • Feb 2019
                              • 1821

                              #74
                              Originally posted by SubHuman
                              Piccy's no showy!
                              I am going to repost the post! Do not know what went wrong??

                              Rob
                              "Firemen can stand the heat"

                              Comment

                              • rwtdiver
                                Vice Admiral
                                • Feb 2019
                                • 1821

                                #75
                                My 80mm WTC is fully functional.

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                                Click image for larger version  Name:	ARKMODE BBP 2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	79.8 KB ID:	160893Click image for larger version  Name:	ARKMODEL Y 2.jpg Views:	0 Size:	54.4 KB ID:	160894

                                I did set it for both bow and stern dive planes to work in sink with each other. I have my reasons for doing this type set up on my Arkmodel Type VII. I really do not want to get into the reason why I am doing this, it's not worth the effort to explain it. Most would disagree with my set up, and that is fine! I am an unorthodox out of the box as a builder, finisher, and the way I run my boats. It works for me, and that is good!!

                                Rob
                                "Firemen can stand the heat"

                                Comment

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