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Converting the Bronco type XXIII to RC

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  • Converting the Bronco type XXIII to RC

    under construction, updates will follow

    Manfred
    Last edited by MFR1964; 03-02-2013, 08:33 AM.
    Fertig zum unterwasser.

  • #2
    Watching.

    - Leelan

    Comment


    • #3
      Me too!..........................
      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm also watching, that is, into the Bronco box,

        I allready sniffed over the content, tomorrow i'll take some pics for showing the details, for now it's looking promising, i think David will be able to make a nice fitting kit, did some measurements, and the single drive 2,5 SD will fit like a glove, those launchtubes eat up a lot off room.

        It would be a shame to leave the tubes static, fitted one off my electric torps inside the tubes, it can be done with my new next generation launchtube, working scope and snorkel will be tricky because of the room left inside the tower and the total height when extended, thinking bowden cables and hydraulic rams, as you guys can see lots of idea's.


        Manfred.
        Last edited by MFR1964; 03-02-2013, 03:16 PM.
        Fertig zum unterwasser.

        Comment


        • #5
          Last evening i made a evaluation what to do to make it work, in general there is enough space inside, you have to cut away some of the internal bulkheads for making room to place the SD, and opening up to avoid any airbubbles inside, i took a lot of pictures so it's going to be several posts, enjoy.



          Laid down one halve of the launchtube with one of my torpedo's, the diameter is right, lenght will not be a problem with my next generation launchtubes.



          They only placed bulkheads in the frontpart, the rearpart is free from that.



          Did some griding with the dremel to see if the rims are easely to be removed, that won't be a problem.



          Took some more parts from the box, the provided torpedo bulkheads can be used to make the tubes functional.



          Unlike my other boats you have a nicely detailed exit of the tubes.



          This is something refreshing, they used magnets to keep the doors shut, placed opposed against each other they want to reject the other magnet, thus pushing the doors shut, neat solution!!!, only the hinges have to be modified, it's certainly worth a try to make it work.



          The door placed into the bow, the magnet will take lesser room unlike my springsystem, and lesser mechanical parts which can fail.



          Manfred.
          Fertig zum unterwasser.

          Comment


          • #6


            There is a issue on this boat, the general layout is accourding to the drawings 1943, but the floodholes represent a early type model, the Balkon gerat under the bow is a late type Balkongerat, so you have two choices, make the Balkongerat the early type or place some more floodholes, i'll go for adding more floodholes giving me a late type XXIII.



            Accourding to the drawings these bars have to be horizontal instead of vertical, a easy fix.



            At the rear they did i wrong again, these have to be vertical instead of horizontal, funny guys those chinese.



            On the other hand they made a nice conningtower, floodholes are OK, most type XXIII's have this as a basic layout, untill they arrived back at the shipyard, and the captain yelled for a blowtorch, divingtime in those days was critical, you can determen the U number by looking at the arrangement on the tower, so the possibilities are endless.
            There is one small issue, each floodhole had a bar to avoid foureign objects entering the conningtower, i've seen those on different pictures i've collected these days, it will look good without, but if it's possible i'm going to add those too.



            Marked the conningtower where i want to make the cut for my design closing this boat, i want to use the split they allready provided with the model.



            Those bulkheads have to be removed to make some space for your SD, first i want to add the brackets for the SD and then cut away those bulkheads, by doing this i hope to avoid any warping of the hull.



            In the bowpart there is another set of bulkheads, drilling holes inside can solve the airbubble problem, but i want to remove it completely.

            Now it's back to the cave to get some work done on the type VII, when the upgrade is done i'll want to start with this baby.


            Manfred.
            Fertig zum unterwasser.

            Comment


            • #7
              watching this thread. thanks for the details, Manfred.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Sam,

                For now it's far to busy inside the cave to digg in on this baby any further, yes i'm tempted, have to finish the VII first, be patient.


                Manfred.
                Fertig zum unterwasser.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nice photos, thanks for posting them. I have a few issues with your findings though..

                  "There is a issue on this boat, the general layout is accourding to the drawings 1943, but the floodholes represent a early type model, the Balkon gerat under the bow is a late type Balkongerat, so you have two choices, make the Balkongerat the early type or place some more floodholes, i'll go for adding more floodholes giving me a late type XXIII."

                  The flood holes you're referring to, I assume, are the three rectangular openings above the bow dive planes. If this is the case, I have to politely disagree with your statement. There are multiple photos of boats with the combination of only three holes and the late Balkon Gerat. There are also photos showing the combination of only three holes and the early Balkon Gerat. I have also seen photos of the "seven hole" arrangement (with the extra four holes trailing behind), combined with the late Balkon Gerat. The drawing your probably referring to, dated "1.12.1943", shows the seven hole arrangement with an early Balkon Gerat. That drawing also shows Type VII style splash guards on the tower (I have never seen a photo of a boat configured like that).

                  Therefore, I see this as a non issue with the kit.. The kit assembler can either leave it as is, or make whatever custom configuration they want.

                  "Accourding to the drawings these bars have to be horizontal instead of vertical, a easy fix. At the rear they did i wrong again, these have to be vertical instead of horizontal, funny guys those chinese."

                  Again, your findings seem to come from that same drawing I mentioned above. That drawing conflicts with one of the photos of the tail that I posted on the other thread (which shows only one rectangular opening back there instead of two). Finding good, clear photos of the bottom center of the boat are difficult to come by. There were so many variations on these boats (both in the drawings and the actual construction) you cannot say definitively whether the slats should be horizontal or vertical. I personally wouldn't lose any sleep over that particular detail.

                  "There is one small issue, each floodhole had a bar to avoid foureign objects entering the conningtower, i've seen those on different pictures i've collected these days, it will look good without, but if it's possible i'm going to add those too."

                  I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.. The only flood holes, in the tower area, that consistently have a bar in them, are the six on top of the faring for the diesel exhaust silencer. The photos I have examined, of various boats, show that most of the flood holes have no bar on them. A few of them will have a horizontal bar, or in some cases, a vertical bar. In addition, like the hole arrangement itself, the holes that have bars, vary from boat to boat.

                  Your torpedo fits in the provided tubes fairly well.. Therefore, I am assuming it is 1/35 scale. I have seven 1/32 scale gas torpedos with brass launch tubes from my 32P.
                  Last edited by Warpatroller; 03-03-2013, 02:56 PM.
                  "Wir kommen ihnen unbekannt."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Patience my ....oh all right. If we must. Manfred, for your work it is worth waiting for!
                    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hello Manfred.
                      I though you'll be going with a dry hull here similar to your V80.
                      Anyway, from your other creations I know this will be a great conversion project.
                      I'll be watching this closely, surely lots of pearls to pick up.
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Steve,

                        About the floodholes, i wrongly assumed that a new type of Horchgerat would mean more floodholes, after your remark i surfed the web and found some pictures with the type XXIII in hoist, showing the old and new type Horchgerat in combination with the three floodholes, so that's a bummer from me, either you can choose to keep it just the way it is, or add some more floodholes.




                        About the old style arrangement on the tower, the boat on the right has allready the lower old style splashguard, in the book they mentioned that it was replaced by the normal conningtower.

                        I agree with you that the floodholes under water can vary, like you mentioned, no boat was the same, for solving the bars issue, you indeed will have to get a good shot from below the waterline, i follow your advice for keeping the bars as it is, only will replace them by copper bars, unless there is a clear picture which proves otherwise.





                        This what i mean about the bars placed into the floodholes, on the second picture you can see that they added more floodholes along the line where normally the railing was fitted, they probably placed bars inside for having some grip.

                        Yeah, my torpedo's are scale 1:35, they are electric free runners from my type VII, i can swap my torpedo's between my models, allways try to build the same launchtubes, in total i've got 5.

                        If you have more pictures about the XXIII, please share them, on this type i'm a novice.



                        Tom,

                        I'm still working on the type VII, she has to be ready first, otherwise i get stuffed with to many boats unbuild or just not ready to drive.



                        Romel,

                        It will be a new adventure, like Steve mentioned i've got much to learn, glad he corrected me in my mistakes.



                        Manfred.
                        Fertig zum unterwasser.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Manfred- you need this:
                          http://www.amazon.com/Vom-Original-M.../dp/3763760075

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Manfred,

                            I am not an expert on the XXIII.. Though I have been fixated on this boat for about the past seven years..

                            I had forgotten about that construction photo you posted, showing the middle type VII style splash guard on the tower of U2323. That same boat was later configured with a standard tower and splash guard like the Bronco kit has. With the exception that the flood hole arrangement is similar to the heavily warped photo of U2322 that you posted directly above. I have a photo of U2323, in a later configuration, during its training phase, sporting a tower that looks quite similar to U2322. I will try to get it posted this weekend.

                            Regarding the bar slats on the bottom of the hull. Change them if you want to match those drawings. I was just stating that you didn't have to necessarily feel that the model's current arrangement is "incorrect". That detail is kind of inconclusive to determine either way. There is a sunken XXIII, near Norway I think, that some divers were photographing somewhat recently (couldn't see much detail from their videos). I suppose if that wreck was ever raised it might reveal what the bottom of a typical XXIII really looked like. That is, after all the barnacles and crud are removed from it.

                            Steve
                            "Wir kommen ihnen unbekannt."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Steve,

                              I'm not a expert on the XXIII either, normally i take a year to do research, but those guys from Bronco came up with this kit, i always had a weak spot for the XXIII, for now i'm learning fast about this boat.


                              That tower arrangement strucked my eyes while searching through the Pdf i have, still have a need for more pics, so if you have more post them please.



                              As for the bars under the waterline, take a look at this picture from the 2326, docked in france, to me it seems the bars are vertical just before the diveplane protector, unfortunally there are not more of these pictures.

                              As for the XXIII in Norway, i've seen the vid those divers made, there are plans to hoist it up for display in a museum, if they can raise enough money off course.


                              Manfred.
                              Fertig zum unterwasser.

                              Comment

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