Bronco 1:35 Type XXIII RC Build/ Conversion

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  • biggsgolf
    Captain
    • Jan 2020
    • 702

    Thanks David, will be referencing this post for Handrails


    The kit supplied plastic railing that girdle the sides of the sail are just too fragile to be serviceable on a practical r/c submarine. So, I substituted brass wire railings.



    The two brass railing assemblies are formed of .020-inch diameter brass rod. The pins are about .375-inch long, pointed at the inboard end, and ground to a flat at the outboard end.

    The RenShape pin-retainer, which temporarily resides within the sail -- and conforms to the curve there -- securely holds the embedded pins in place and also serves as a heat-sink to rapidly dissipate soldering heat away before the easily melted polystyrene plastic of the sail.



    After the pin-retainer is installed within the sail (shown outside so you can see how it would be used) the bore clearing-pin setting tool is used to push a pin through one of the .023-inch holes that have been drilled through the side of the sail.



    Pulling the bore clearing-pin setting tool away from the work leaves the pin well embedded into the pin-retainer bearing against the inside of the sail. Use of the tool results in an array of railing pins projecting from the side of the sail, all of the same height.



    A long length of brass rod becomes the railing proper. Here I'm using thin strips of masking tape to secure the railing over its pins. Note the finished railing assembly laying near the top of the sail. With the aid of the internal pin retainer the sail itself becomes the holding fixture of the parts that, once soldered together, become a railing assembly.



    The secret to keeping the heat localized to the joint is a hot soldering iron tip; a tip that is ground small to minimize heat transfer to non-joint structures; and use of the pin-retainer which also acts as a heat-sink.



    The tip of the iron is applied to the joint with half-second jabs, just long enough to get good solder flow, as evidenced by these small, tight fillets between rail and pin.



    Snipping off the excess railing at the forward-most pin. The raw end here would be worked with file and sanding stick after contouring with very light, carefully applied jabs of the carbide cut-off wheel.



    While still in place on the sail the railing assembly has all the solder unions cleaned up by scraping away excessive fillet with a blade; sanding and filing away solder and crystallized flux; and finally abrading away all scratch-marks with a good polishing using #0000 steel-wool.



    After all soldering and clean-up work had been done on the railing assembly the RenShape pin-retainer, within the sail, was pried away from the pins and removed.



    The pin-retainer is used as a handling fixture if any further work on a railing is required off-sail. Note the three items needed to do the soldering: a 35-Watt soldering iron with custom ground tip; acid paste flux; and 60/40 solder. At the bottom of this shot is the bore clearing-pin setting tool.



    Comment

    • biggsgolf
      Captain
      • Jan 2020
      • 702

      3D Printing the Pin Pusher
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      • biggsgolf
        Captain
        • Jan 2020
        • 702

        Danny video on Type XXIII RC Conversion

        Comment

        • biggsgolf
          Captain
          • Jan 2020
          • 702

          Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named
          REPRESENTING IRON RUST ON SUBMARINE MODELS


          I served aboard both diesel and nuclear powered American submarines as a Torpedoman. As such, me and my fellow weaponeers were as close to being a boats 'Boatswain's Mate' as could be found among ships company. Hence, we TM's were in charge of 'deck' – hull preservation above waterline was a significant fraction of the things we did in port. I know corrosion! I know what spot and running rust look like! Me and my fellow troglodytes were grinding, chipping, hammering, painting fools!

          Peace-time boats (regardless of nationality or climate) have the luxury of time and facilities – you won't find much rust atop one of today's boats. But, in times of quick turn-around, when job-one was getting the boat ready for another sortie, preservation took a back seat to weapons handling and the many other tasks required to make the boat ready for patrol.

          Such was the case with the German Type-23's – little coastal submarines that had to be worked up, commissioned and sent ... without delay... to the Front – explaining the sorry state of their appearance in the few photos we have of operational units employed at wars end. Many of these units evidenced rust on their above waterline portions.

          The task for the model kit assembler is to represent the rust, deck scuffing, grime streaking, verdigris, oil runs, and marine growth in a convincing manner.

          Today's submarines – even the poorly maintain former Soviet submarine – don't evidence much rust at all. So this discussion, dealing with rust, is pretty much confined to world war era submarine crews who had more pressing concerns than making the boat look sharp for the Commodore or his staff.

          What you'll see in the form of 'weathering' on today's submarines will be light colored (variations on gray) streaking down the sides of the hull and running down from all vertical structures. Just follow the gravity line to know the orientation of such streaking, as demonstrated below.



          Though in miserable shape (by Western standards), there is little rust to be seen on this KILO. None below waterline, and only a smidgen around the upper torpedo tube shutter doors, and between safety-tracks and deck.

          Keep this in mind: NO EVIDENCE OF OXIDIZED IRON BEARING METALS BELOW THE WATERLINE!!!



          After assembling my Bronco 1/35th scale Type-23 kit I elected to paint and weather the thing as though it was still in work-up, before going out on war-patrols – the yellow bands on the sail denoting this sub as a unit still in the training phase. However, this new unit, only weeks or months out of the building ways, has already started to show a disregard for care of the paint-work. Rust is the rule of the day here. Rust your model submarine with a bit of forethought and study of boats of the time, place, and circumstances that inform the back-story of your display.



          What on a Type-23 would evidence rust?

          Rust that originates at weld-beads, between lapped joined plating, and rust originating at any surface featuring a sharp edge (limber holes, breakwaters, ladder rungs, fasteners, deck foundations, etc.).



          Research. Research... Research!

          The quality of any physical display – and I'm talking miniatures representing real or imagined prototypes – is a consequence of its physical adherence to the original. Is its color, sheen, and representation of weathering a faithful copy of the original i.e., does the model look like the prototype in shape and finish?



          The burden on the model-builder/kit-assembler is to KNOW THE PROTOTYPE! Here you see just a small sampling of the documentation I've gathered and arrayed near a work-station.

          Don't wing it... KNOW it! Become aware of the 'look' of your subject.



          The Great photo-real Artist worked by studying a subject while it/they were positioned in close proximity to the canvas/slab of marble/hunk of clay. Same goes for your work as you paint and weather your toy submarine.



          Less is more, the golden rule of weathering, particularly when applying rust. Can you find the 'rust' in this picture? This display suggests rust – it does not hit you over the head with the presence of rust.



          The prominent weathering you see on the above waterline structures is streaking. Not rusting!!!!






          A poor rusting job. Wrong subject for the process. And a process poorly applied.



          Rust originates where paint and preservative (red-lead) has been worn away. This H-bollard demonstrates the proper use of 'rusting'. The oxidation is happening where bare iron bearing metal is exposed to the elements through rough use.



          No weathering or markings are applied until the entire display is given a thick clear-coat. This affords the opportunity of 'erasing' mistakes with polish or sand-paper should you err during weathering and/or markings work. The clear coat is a barrier between paint and weathering agents.



          First, highlight all creasing and deep relief areas of the models surface with a well thinned artist-oil black wash. Cut the paint with turpentine – it's chemically benign and will not react with the paint or clear-coat.

          Here's how I do it:










          Before doing any fancy weathering work, first practice the use of your mediums and means of application on a test-article.



          Once you become confident in your ability, commence hostilities on the display...







          I went over-kill on the rust application – reasoning that by getting rust into each and every crevasse was more important than being careful with the application. Easier to get all the desired rust in place and abrade off the excess than to get crazy with precise application.



          Excess rust would be scrubbed away with a scouring powder slurry, steel wool, 3M abrasive pad, and course polishing compound. Another abrading tool is a fiberglass 'eraser brush' – that item with the red handle to the right. This is where that clear-coat comes in – its the barrier that keeps you from digging into the paint job.









          WA-la! Rust ONLY where I want it.



          Alternative mediums used to represent rust include linseed oil based 'artist paint', water soluble acrylic paint, ground chalks, smear crayons, color pencils and pens, and lipstick.



          [URDL=https://imageshack.com/i/pmqfIOHWj][/URL]
          David did you use the MM Primer?, or just apply the oxidizing iron? Did you let it cure then apply the Rust Activator? How long till the rust color appears?

          Comment

          • He Who Shall Not Be Named
            Moderator
            • Aug 2008
            • 12186

            Originally posted by biggsgolf
            David did you use the MM Primer?, or just apply the oxidizing iron? Did you let it cure then apply the Rust Activator? How long till the rust color appears?
            I've applied the iron over the primer, and without the primer. About the same results -- takes about a day to 'rust' after applying the acid.

            David
            Who is John Galt?

            Comment

            • DrSchmidt
              Captain
              • Apr 2014
              • 896

              With respect to weathering, my approach always is ..

              Primer --> base color --> Filters --> Washes --> dry brushing -> pigments, oils, additional washes (optimal)

              Filter: Usually the base coat is very homogeneous and even. In real even new color is never that homogeneous and it becomes less and less homogeneous with age. So you have to introduce subtle color variations. One way to do this is to apply uneven black or white undercoatings (as seen in many of Daves pictures). Another way to do this is to apply a very thinned out, uneven coat of color on top of the base color -> a filter. I take one drop of an acrylic wash (usually Vallejo grey wash) and thin it down with 7-12 drops of water. Then I apply a wet coat with a large brush across the whole surface I want to weather. you can play with colors (blue, white, green, brown washes...) as base for the filter and one can apply more layers. Usually you shouldn't exceed two.....

              Washes: Thinned down acrylics that are thinner than airbrush paints but thicker than filters. You use dark washes that you apply with thin brushes at edges and grooves of the model to accentuate the relief of the surface (e.g. shadows). I also use white washes to apply streaking and stains. There is no limit to layers and one can create quite some depth using different washes and many layers.

              Dry brushing: This technique is used to put highlights on raised edges. Take a lighter color than the base color, take a fan brush, dip the tip of it in the color and then dry it with cloth until you think that there can't be any color left. Then brush across the surface and see how the edges start to shine.

              Oils I use to apply rust. There are awesome rust effects from Ammo M.I.G.. I all do all the rust on my boats with these oils.

              Try it with a small kit, and learn the techniques. No magic involved and you can create nice reuslts quite esaily.
              Last edited by DrSchmidt; 12-08-2023, 02:17 AM.

              Comment

              • biggsgolf
                Captain
                • Jan 2020
                • 702

                Originally posted by DrSchmidt
                With respect to weathering, my approach always is ..

                Primer --> base color --> Filters --> Washes --> dry brushing -> pigments, oils, additional washes (optimal)

                Filter: Usually the base coat is very homogeneous and even. In real even new color is never that homogeneous and it becomes less and less homogeneous with age. So you have to introduce subtle color variations. One way to do this is to apply uneven black or white undercoatings (as seen in man of Daves pictures). Another way to do this is to apply a very thinned out, uneven coat of color on top of the base color -> a filter. I take one drop of an acrylic wash (usually Vallejo grey wash) and thin it down with 7-12 drops of water. Then I apply a wet coat with a large brush across the whole surface I want to weather. One van ply with colors (blue, white, green, brown washes...) as base for the filter and one can apply more layers. Usually you shouldn't exceed two.....

                Washes: Thinned down acrylics that are thinner than airbrush paints but thicker than filters. You use dark washes that you apply with thin brushes at edges and grooves of the model to accentuate the relief of the surface (e.g. shadows). I also use white washes to apply streaking and stains. There is no limit to layers and one can create quite some depth using different washes and many layers.

                Dry brushing: This technique is used to put highlights on raised edges. Take a lighter color than the base color, take a fan brush, dip the tip of it in the color and then dry it with cloth until you think that there can't be any color left. Then brush across the surface and see how the edges start to shine.

                Oils I use to apply rust. There are awesome rust effects from Ammo M.I.G.. I all do all the rust on my boats with these oils.

                Try it with a small kit, and learn the techniques. No magic involved and you can create nice reuslts quite esaily.
                thanks for the advice

                Comment

                • biggsgolf
                  Captain
                  • Jan 2020
                  • 702

                  11/6-12/29 Click image for larger version

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                  Comment

                  • biggsgolf
                    Captain
                    • Jan 2020
                    • 702

                    Originally posted by biggsgolf
                    Thanks David, will be referencing this post for Handrails


                    The kit supplied plastic railing that girdle the sides of the sail are just too fragile to be serviceable on a practical r/c submarine. So, I substituted brass wire railings.



                    The two brass railing assemblies are formed of .020-inch diameter brass rod. The pins are about .375-inch long, pointed at the inboard end, and ground to a flat at the outboard end.

                    The RenShape pin-retainer, which temporarily resides within the sail -- and conforms to the curve there -- securely holds the embedded pins in place and also serves as a heat-sink to rapidly dissipate soldering heat away before the easily melted polystyrene plastic of the sail.



                    After the pin-retainer is installed within the sail (shown outside so you can see how it would be used) the bore clearing-pin setting tool is used to push a pin through one of the .023-inch holes that have been drilled through the side of the sail.



                    Pulling the bore clearing-pin setting tool away from the work leaves the pin well embedded into the pin-retainer bearing against the inside of the sail. Use of the tool results in an array of railing pins projecting from the side of the sail, all of the same height.



                    A long length of brass rod becomes the railing proper. Here I'm using thin strips of masking tape to secure the railing over its pins. Note the finished railing assembly laying near the top of the sail. With the aid of the internal pin retainer the sail itself becomes the holding fixture of the parts that, once soldered together, become a railing assembly.



                    The secret to keeping the heat localized to the joint is a hot soldering iron tip; a tip that is ground small to minimize heat transfer to non-joint structures; and use of the pin-retainer which also acts as a heat-sink.



                    The tip of the iron is applied to the joint with half-second jabs, just long enough to get good solder flow, as evidenced by these small, tight fillets between rail and pin.



                    Snipping off the excess railing at the forward-most pin. The raw end here would be worked with file and sanding stick after contouring with very light, carefully applied jabs of the carbide cut-off wheel.



                    While still in place on the sail the railing assembly has all the solder unions cleaned up by scraping away excessive fillet with a blade; sanding and filing away solder and crystallized flux; and finally abrading away all scratch-marks with a good polishing using #0000 steel-wool.



                    After all soldering and clean-up work had been done on the railing assembly the RenShape pin-retainer, within the sail, was pried away from the pins and removed.



                    The pin-retainer is used as a handling fixture if any further work on a railing is required off-sail. Note the three items needed to do the soldering: a 35-Watt soldering iron with custom ground tip; acid paste flux; and 60/40 solder. At the bottom of this shot is the bore clearing-pin setting tool.



                    Next task Brass Rails

                    Comment

                    • redboat219
                      Admiral
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 2719

                      Originally posted by biggsgolf
                      11/6-12/29 Click image for larger version

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ID:	177070 Click image for larger version

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                      IMHO, looks like she got stuck in the mud up to her water line.
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment

                      • Das Boot
                        Rear Admiral
                        • Dec 2019
                        • 1149

                        Paint the bottom flat black.
                        Of the 40,000 men who served on German submarines, 30,000 never returned.”

                        Comment

                        • biggsgolf
                          Captain
                          • Jan 2020
                          • 702

                          This Type XXII operated in cold waters. Refer to this Post for what a cold water sub looks like:

                          Comment

                          • biggsgolf
                            Captain
                            • Jan 2020
                            • 702

                            Originally posted by Das Boot
                            Paint the bottom flat black.
                            Never seen a Type XXIII with a black hull.

                            Comment

                            • biggsgolf
                              Captain
                              • Jan 2020
                              • 702

                              Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named

                              I've applied the iron over the primer, and without the primer. About the same results -- takes about a day to 'rust' after applying the acid.

                              David
                              David, wtf should I do now, obviously I have no artistic ability..... should I just re paint the lower hull Dark Grey?

                              Comment

                              • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                                Moderator
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 12186

                                Originally posted by biggsgolf

                                David, wtf should I do now, obviously I have no artistic ability..... should I just re paint the lower hull Dark Grey?
                                I buy you books, I send you to school, I pay for a tutor, I present pretty pictures, I author endless posts.

                                And what do you troglodytes do with it all?.... you eat the ****ing Teacher!
                                Who is John Galt?

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