Hms holland 1 build

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  • Subculture
    Admiral
    • Feb 2009
    • 2137

    #31
    These are the pumps used in R&R modules. They used to have brass gears when they were made in France, but with production moved to China the gears are now plastic (meh!). They still work okay in aspirated tanks where they don't need to push against much pressure. Kavan pumps have brass gears, but they're much bigger and more expensive, although well worth it if you have the space.


    Universal for Car, Van, Bus, Truck etc. 1 Washer Pump. AUTO POWER. (except Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macao, China, Guernsey, Luxembourg, etc.). Manufacturer Part Number: AMS65613. 9-12 13-18 19-24 25-29 30-35 >35.




    Alternatives, fit two unidirectional pumps one to pump in, one to pump out. Use a peristaltic pump- you can find printable versions on thingiverse. They tend to be slow at pumping compared to geared pumps, but a Holland has a low freeboard.

    Comment

    • Subculture
      Admiral
      • Feb 2009
      • 2137

      #32
      I have also seen these, although I haven't used them or known anyone else use them to date, but the spec looks good. Not sure if the parts are okay with water, e.g. use of carbon steel shafts etc.

      So if you try one, you may get arrows in your backside.

      Brushed



      Brushless- looks much more expensive, and probably not worth it IMO.

      Comment

      • Subculture
        Admiral
        • Feb 2009
        • 2137

        #33
        Diaphragm pumps will pump air or water quite happily, although my own experiments with them suggests that the pumps bog down very heavily when pumping water. Quite understandable when you consider the difference in density. The diaphragm pumps I've seen specified for water tend to have larger hose fittings. I wonder too if they have a lower revving and/or torquier motors. e.g. https://tinyurl.com/y2f6x5k3

        Course you can always use the pump you have, add another and use one to draw air out of the tank and the other to pump the water back out again.





        Last edited by Subculture; 07-17-2022, 06:03 AM.

        Comment

        • Sam Victory
          Commander
          • Sep 2021
          • 391

          #34
          To be honest, I don't really like using a peristaltic pump, even though it transports liquids in both directions. The reason is also very simple, in addition to it is very slow to transport liquid, there is a fatal disadvantage is its service life is particularly short, should be the shortest life of the pump. Peristaltic pump is dependent on the roller squeeze the tube to transport liquid, the longer the use of the effect will be worse because the tube will lose elasticity after too many times of squeeze, thus reducing the amount of liquid per unit of time. The most annoying thing is that you don't know when the hose will eventually rupture due to squeezing. Manufacturers have long done extensive experiments, the average life of an ordinary peristaltic pump is only four or five hours, in the case of non-stop operation. If one day, when you are operating the submarine process, peristaltic pump hose rupture, however, you have no idea, in the diving or surfacing process, peristaltic pump will let a constant stream of water come into the WTC dry space. The result is that a small amount of water accumulates and the eventual consequences are severe.


          V

          Comment

          • neitosub
            Lieutenant Commander
            • Nov 2021
            • 129

            #35
            Hi Rob,

            If inner space is the limiting factor, you can get away with having the pump on the exterior of the WTC, running in the wet. I have this setup in my Blueback and although it’s not ideal (the motor can get some slight corrosion on the brushes long term), it gets the job done since I don’t run that boat for long periods of time in the water anyways. As long as you dry the pump after every run, it should last you a while.

            Nate

            Comment

            • redboat219
              Admiral
              • Dec 2008
              • 2784

              #36
              Originally posted by Sam Victory
              To be honest, I don't really like using a peristaltic pump, even though it transports liquids in both directions. The reason is also very simple, in addition to it is very slow to transport liquid, there is a fatal disadvantage is its service life is particularly short, should be the shortest life of the pump. Peristaltic pump is dependent on the roller squeeze the tube to transport liquid, the longer the use of the effect will be worse because the tube will lose elasticity after too many times of squeeze, thus reducing the amount of liquid per unit of time. The most annoying thing is that you don't know when the hose will eventually rupture due to squeezing. Manufacturers have long done extensive experiments, the average life of an ordinary peristaltic pump is only four or five hours, in the case of non-stop operation. If one day, when you are operating the submarine process, peristaltic pump hose rupture, however, you have no idea, in the diving or surfacing process, peristaltic pump will let a constant stream of water come into the WTC dry space. The result is that a small amount of water accumulates and the eventual consequences are severe.


              V
              -That's why it's important you do pre and post mission checks.

              -You'll probably lose your sub to something else before the tube breaks.

              -Life is too short. Be a warrior not a worrier.
              Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

              Comment

              • neitosub
                Lieutenant Commander
                • Nov 2021
                • 129

                #37
                Originally posted by rwtdiver
                I just looked at a YouTube that Romel just put up!

                A little video showcasing my 1/96 scale USS Blueback RC submarine model. The hull is from the Nautilus Drydocks and I custom-built the water tight cylinder ...


                It shows how the Blueback WTC has the water pump for his ballast system installed on the very front of the WTC. His entire WTC concept is very similar to what I am trying to do with the HMS Holland build.
                Very nice Blueback build, and it performed very well in the water. It was a great presentation and I really like how he took his time to show and explain his WTC and ballast system that he fabricated.

                This is the type of stuff that makes this hobby so enjoyable and positive, great building and most of all the GREAT people!

                Rob
                "Firemen can stand the heat"
                Thanks Rob! That’s actually my boat! I still have to take her out for her run this season, but that’s coming up soon!

                Nate




                Comment

                • neitosub
                  Lieutenant Commander
                  • Nov 2021
                  • 129

                  #38
                  Thanks Rob! Yes, the ballast tank is 3D printed, I sprayed a few layers of automotive-grade filler primer on the inside and outside in order to seal the PLA against water and moisture. The ballast tank is actually too big and made the boat too negatively buoyant, so I had to squeeze in a lot of foam on the upper hull in order to get her sitting correctly at periscope depth.

                  Nate

                  Comment

                  • Sam Victory
                    Commander
                    • Sep 2021
                    • 391

                    #39
                    Originally posted by redboat219
                    -That's why it's important you do pre and post mission checks.

                    -You'll probably lose your sub to something else before the tube breaks.

                    -Life is too short. Be a warrior not a worrier.
                    Redboat,

                    Making things simple rather than complex is appropriate for most people on this forum. You replace other good stuff (gear pumps, diaphragm pumps...) with a peristaltic pump that is inherently unsuitable for submarines. , why is this? Do you call this challenging yourself or do you like to keep repairing things? Peristaltic pumps are commonly used in the medical field, such as liquid transfer, titration, quantitative testing, etc., so it runs very slowly.

                    V

                    Comment

                    • redboat219
                      Admiral
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 2784

                      #40
                      Originally posted by rwtdiver
                      I just looked at a YouTube that Romel just put up!

                      A little video showcasing my 1/96 scale USS Blueback RC submarine model. The hull is from the Nautilus Drydocks and I custom-built the water tight cylinder ...


                      It shows how the Blueback WTC has the water pump for his ballast system installed on the very front of the WTC. His entire WTC concept is very similar to what I am trying to do with the HMS Holland build.
                      Very nice Blueback build, and it performed very well in the water. It was a great presentation and I really like how he took his time to show and explain his WTC and ballast system that he fabricated.

                      This is the type of stuff that makes this hobby so enjoyable and positive, great building and most of all the GREAT people!

                      Rob
                      "Firemen can stand the heat"
                      At the time I posted the video Nate wasn't yet a member of this group. It was too good not to share here.
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment

                      • RCSubGuy
                        Welcome to my underwater realm!
                        • Aug 2009
                        • 1793

                        #41
                        Rob,


                        Let me know if you're interested in that pump and I can take some measurements to see if it will fit in your WTC.

                        Bob

                        Comment

                        • redboat219
                          Admiral
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 2784

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Sam Victory

                          Redboat,

                          Making things simple rather than complex is appropriate for most people on this forum. You replace other good stuff (gear pumps, diaphragm pumps...) with a peristaltic pump that is inherently unsuitable for submarines. , why is this? Do you call this challenging yourself or do you like to keep repairing things?

                          V
                          Sorry Rob, i apologize from hijacking your thread.

                          Sam,
                          why don't you ask these guys, they chose to use peristaltic pumps with their boats.

                          Trying something new! This is a 1:144 Kilo build. The Cylinder arrived from overseas today! Since my pool is 40’x20’ I have been looking for a smaller scale sub. My 1:96 scale Blueback does well, but not as nimble as this should be. Updates to follow!


                          Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                          Comment

                          • Sam Victory
                            Commander
                            • Sep 2021
                            • 391

                            #43
                            Redboat219,

                            Sometimes I do admire your imagination and creativity,but sorry I'm a big submarine enthusiast and I've made it very clear, breaking down the pros and cons of peristaltic pumps, so if you'd still like to use a peristaltic pump in your little submarine, go for it, if you feel it's reliable. It's true that there is no such thing as standardization in making submarines, everyone is entitled to use what they want, it's just that I prefer to accept and learn from those who have come before me and then get what I want from them and innovate. Those masters summed up their experience through years of practice is well worth for those of us who come after them to learn, if you think I have a point, please think twice.

                            If you still want to discuss about peristaltic pumps, please make a new thread and I will be happy to participate in the discussion, at the moment we are disrupting other people's threads.

                            V
                            Last edited by Sam Victory; 07-19-2022, 05:58 AM.

                            Comment

                            • RCSubGuy
                              Welcome to my underwater realm!
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 1793

                              #44
                              Originally posted by rwtdiver

                              Thank you Bob! I have the pump that I am going to use! I did send you an email with the specifications...

                              Rob
                              "Firemen can stand the heat"

                              I didn't get your email, Rob... Can you re-send and let me know which email you sent to?

                              Bob

                              Comment

                              • redboat219
                                Admiral
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 2784

                                #45
                                Rob,
                                You could try using a reversible brushed ESC iinstead of those servo activated micro switches specially f you're not going to use a blocking valve.

                                Looking forward to the test video.
                                Last edited by redboat219; 07-20-2022, 11:44 AM.
                                Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                                Comment

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