British submarine id

[Roddersuk]

FAO Greenman.
With reference to the T Class, the forrard external tubes indeed did stick out either side of the bow but it was the FRONT of the tubes, not the REAR.!!!!

[unseen]

To be quite correct about external tube space on Second and Third Group T Class Boats. The forward external tubes did not stick out as described, these two tubes were placed in line side by side within the bow structure, but due to the limited space on the upper part of the bow casing a protrusion was built into the metal work around the tube doors simply to streamline the bow structure. However, aft of the bridge structure (or conning tower) as many incorrectly term it, two external tubes were placed facing aft which indeed stick out. On First Group Boats these tubes were placed facing forward of the bridge in the region of the gun tower but these did not protrude but built in mid ships on the wider section of the casing.

[greenman407]

So, just to be correct, British subs didnt have conning towers, or just the T class? Or are you talking about the Bridge structure? I ask this at the same time as treading lightly concerning British usages of the words. In American usage , the Bridge is the exposed platform for visually looking out with Binoculars and reporting back to the Conning tower or control room. The Conning tower is a water proof room, usually right below the bridge where there were controls that could actually "conn" the submarine, or conduct it. Some of the periscopes could be used from there. The Control room(usually leading to the Conning tower) had everything that was on the Conning Tower, just more of it(and more room). The last American submarine with a "Conning Tower" was the Triton. Since then all AM. subs term it a "Sail" that freefloods. In British practice, I think that they call it a "Fin". I think.

[unseen]

Conning Towers on British Submarines are basically a reinforced steel tube with two water tight doors or lids situated at both ends.(upper and lower lids a British term) The conning tower leads from the control room located inside the main body of the pressure hull via a ladder to the bridge structure, which obviously is as high as the bridge casing level. British S, T and later A Class boats had two such towers, the other being called the gun tower. The conning tower on British Submarines is still in use today but this tower leads up to the lower fin structure but high enough for a heavy sea. Inside the fin is a ladder used for access to the bridge on the upper part of the fin. (But you know this already don't you) Now then American Submarines the Queens of the sea, Teddy Young told me once a few years ago (CO HM/submarine Storm) that he visited a American boat during the Far Eastern offensive that he was ashamed the way his crew had to live in such squalid conditions compared to the very much larger American boats. My own knowledge of American Submarines is very limited because being British my loyalties have always favoured the Royal Navy. However, the American submarine being larger than most conventional boats afforded a pressurised control room above the main pressure hull connected by my understanding by two water tight doors, which the upper leads to the bridge. I hope my writings make some sense to you

Best of Wishes

PS I don't care for officer types, could I go back to basic seaman bog washer please

[Kazzer]

PS I don't care for officer types, could I go back to basic seaman bog washer please

Your wish is my command!

[unseen]

Please don't forget the rank the one and half bars can go as well

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Kazzer -- please increase my rank status.

Supreme Sky-Marshall of the Universe

And do you have a shoulder-board with ten-stars on it? With gold epaulettes?

Yeah ... that's the ticket; sounds appropriate to me.

M

[unseen]

Great idea that

[greenman407]

Unseen, thanks for the info on the British Fin arrangement. Please feel free to continue, especially with details about the Gun tube. Was ammo stowed in the Fin or was it hoisted up from below?

[unseen]

Ok, let's have look at the boats within the Royal Navy during WWII including post war. I think it is generally known the S Class Groups I to 3 and likewise the T Class, and not forgetting the U and V Class boats were the main units within the submarine flotillas other than the old H boats in training duties. Gun towers were found on the S and T of all groups which was positioned forward of the bridge structure, whether the gun was positioned directly on the casing or raised behind a rotating gun shield structure which was common to the T Class, however some S boats had a similar arrangement. In all cases there were ready ammunition watertight containers fitted near to the location of the gun mount for immediate use. Of course primed ammunition was fed from below when ammunition was expended which also depended on the duration of the action. It is also noted that these containers were also found at the side of the bridge adjacent to the periscope shears on the S Class. The U and V class boats were not constructed with a gun tower were fitted with just a casing mounted gun and had ammunition fed directly from below via the bridge by the means of a narrow shute. There were immediate ammunition storage containers were fitted at the front of the bridge structure below the mentioned Shute, although I have seen photographs of boats that have been fitted with these containers embedded so to speak fitted to the casing either forward or just aft of the gun. The A Class which was designed for the Far Eastern Theatre of the war was fitted out with a similar appearance to the T Class with a raised gun shield structure, but being too late hostilities ended before these boats could serve. Post War development and the lessons learnt from the Type XXI U-boat, allied navies experimented with underwater speed etc so conversions and streamlining was introduced which the Royal Navy followed the lead from the Americans. However, the use of Gun action was coming to an end with the RN having these weapons removed during refit. The A Class did retain the gun after streamlining for a short period and retained the gun tower for use in the Far East but were removed shortly afterwards. It is recorded historically HM/sm Andrew was the last boat to carry and fire a gun

Regards

[greenman407]

Mike will enjoy reading this.....Hes a GUN man. I believe that its the T class that I enjoy so much....with their various positioned external tubes. They should be called the GUNSLINGERS or TORP SLINGERS.

[greenman407]

Schorcher and Sealion, and an A class

[unseen]

That be Artemis

[greenman407]

What do you think of the camo paint job on the Sealion, UNSEEN? The picture is not color but.....................

[unseen]

Not sure about the colour scheme but it indicates service in tropical far eastern waters but without looking at my reference notes Sealion didn't venture that far. The pattern colours I suspect without being sure are dark green, lime green upon standard light grey. I will have a dig around later and confirm if relevant points show up