Russian Alfa Class

[rwtdiver]

Ultimately, it's up to Rob, (and I know he's got his hands more than full at the moment) but I would be in favor of a new section devoted to 3D printing, design, instruction, and associated topics to collect this type of info in one place where it's easy to find.

While most of it is interesting for those with a passing curiosity in these subjects, it can also be be intimidating because there is a lot of jargon that not everyone is able to relate to. Maybe a beginner and advanced tutorial section within the overall topic would be helpful.

it really depends on how many folks are in favor of it. Having taught 3D topics and created the lesson plans to support them, it takes an awful of of time to do it properly. There needs to be a genuine interest, not just a handful to justify the effort (I'm not retired yet!)

There's a genuine reason you don't see lines of 3D printer owners jumping through their bungholes to print their own 3D designs, and even fewer creating tutorials how to apply the techniques to RC submarine building.

CC Clarke,

Go for it! You already have two of our finest builders (Tom & Steve) wanting to see and learn what you have! It may be better to start a new topic on this forum, rather than mix in with my build blog! I think it might be less confusing!? It's all up to you!

Thanks for the photos of your expanded frame system! A great improvement for sure!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[CC Clarke]

As requested, here's a little info regarding the expanded frames I've started modeling to make putting this model together a bit easier.

EDITOR's NOTE: My changes do not mean to cast any negativity on the model file sold here. It prints fine as-is. My intent is to take something good and hopefully make it better while explaining how it was accomplished.

The frames (called ribs in the files) for two sections have multiple parts. I've consolidated this example of the frames between sections 2 and 3 into one piece that is wider and stronger than the stock parts. The additional width gives more area for each section to bond to, resulting in a stronger joint. Everything you see are prototypes. I make and test multiple designs before I ever settle on a final version. (And it will be glorious.) Some additions include a door forward of the bridge for a mast that was not included, and a forward access door at the base of the forward end of the sail. I've also included an initial render of the original files. I'll add a final version for comparison when the job is complete.

CCC

[CC Clarke]

I would be in for that. What should it be called?

Ultimately, it's up to Rob, (and I know he's got his hands more than full at the moment) but I would be in favor of a new section devoted to 3D printing, design, instruction, and associated topics to collect this type of info in one place where it's easy to find.

While most of it is interesting for those with a passing curiosity in these subjects, it can also be be intimidating because there is a lot of jargon that not everyone is able to relate to. Maybe a beginner and advanced tutorial section within the overall topic would be helpful.

it really depends on how many folks are in favor of it. Having taught 3D topics and created the lesson plans to support them, it takes an awful of of time to do it properly. There needs to be a genuine interest, not just a handful to justify the effort (I'm not retired yet!)

There's a genuine reason you don't see lines of 3D printer owners jumping through their bungholes to print their own 3D designs, and even fewer creating tutorials how to apply the techniques to RC submarine building.

[CC Clarke]

CC Clarke,

Thread jerking is not a problem here, and if this Alfa boat is one of your favorites, it may be an interesting side by side look at the two methods of printing! Non the less I think you have an idea that would show there are other ways to enhance the design and building methods used in our hobby!

I may be in someway past the point of truly understanding and comprehending these new design techniques (old dog new tricks) but I for one would say go for it!

Rob
"Crazy old man at work"

I was 48 when I attended the Digital Animation and Visual Effects (DAVE) school at Universal Studios Orlando, double the age of the oldest student in my Digital Modeling class (of 30). To me, age is a number and the brain a muscle to be used or it will slowly (and surely) atrophy. With two years to go until retirement, I have many, many things left to learn and master in the next 20 years.

As my wise chief once told my young lad self, "Ain't no such thing as can't, --just won't."

I can show some example mods of the Alpha, but the modeling techniques would likely be intimidating (and very lengthy to explain adequately) for beginners. (Good) modeling is really hard work and an art unto itself. Two weeks into the class I mentioned, more than half of the students dropped. It seems no one mentioned there wasn't a big red Staples "Easy Button" on each desk. When teaching modeling, it's very important to introduce (short) topics in an easy-to-understand way, or the audience will quickly lose interest. Digital modeling is probably the most tedious thing I've ever done, and that includes micro-electronic soldering and PCB repair (I teach and certify soldering at the NASA quality level.) It's worth it when the sweat equity is invested. In the beginning, your biggest question is usually "How do I get there from here?" Once you get the hang of it, and your speed increases considerably, then it's relaxing.

I'm learning Fusion 360 at the moment, (there's no way I can afford the CAD software we use at work at home) and I easily spend two days watching a 45-minute tutorial (Lars Christensen is excellent on YouTube) while documenting everything with screenshots into a Word document for later reference. So creating a lesson plan is no easy task because you really have to go back to the time when nothing made sense and make it comprehensible (and enjoyable to learn).

[CC Clarke]

There's nothing stopping you from saving the photos in the other post and reposting them here. The following is a good port side sail shot for reference. I take every line drawing with a grain of salt. Pictures dispel doubt.

CC

[rwtdiver]

CC Clarke,

It seems I have really screwed up my Alfa build! I have two build blogs on this boat at the same time! (Russian Alfa Build & the Unorthodox Submarine Building) Sorry for the mix up!

I am going to stay with this (Russian Alfa Build) for the duration of my build!

CC Clarke! Is there a possibility that you could move those great design photos that you posted on the Unorthodox build to this blog? Your design is a great reference for this Alfa build for others to possibly use on there builds! Thank you very much!

Again! So sorry for my foul up!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[rwtdiver]

I would be in for that. What should it be called?

CC Clarke,

Thread jacking is not a problem here, and if this Alfa boat is one of your favorites, it may be an interesting side by side look at the two methods of printing! Non the less I think you have an idea that would show there are other ways to enhance the design and building methods used in our hobby!

I may be in someway past the point of truly understanding and comprehending these new design techniques (old dog new tricks) but I for one would say go for it!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[SubDude]

I don't want to thread-jack here, so if someone starts a new thread asking for specifics of what they would like to learn, and there's enough interest, I'll begin work on a beginner series starting with modeling and applying it toward 3D printing as the end result. Fusion 360 is preferred because it's powerful and free, but is not the only program I use to create 3D models. There are multiple modeling techniques and most importantly, no one right way to create anything.

I would be in for that. What should it be called?

[CC Clarke]

YES, a series like that would be so helpful!

I don't want to thread-jack here, so if someone starts a new thread asking for specifics of what they would like to learn, and there's enough interest, I'll begin work on a beginner series starting with modeling and applying it toward 3D printing as the end result. Fusion 360 is preferred because it's powerful and free, but is not the only program I use to create 3D models. There are multiple modeling techniques and most importantly, no one right way to create anything.

[trout]

There are very few sources of submarine modeling-specific information available for those who want to make their own hulls. If there's enough interest, I'll create a modeling series using Fusion 360 and my 3D modeling software together describing how to optimize a mesh for easier/faster printing at some point. I think now, more than ever it would be beneficial to give people another resource to learn about the foundations of 3D modeling/printing to help them explore other aspects of the hobby and allow them to make changes when desired. It isn't a skill that is learned quickly or easily; there's a lot of time and effort required to get good at it, but for simple things like designing your own endcaps or control surfaces, those aren't too difficult. So while it isn't for everyone, I'm sure some would benefit from it.

YES, a series like that would be so helpful!

[CC Clarke]

Off to a good start Rob! The Alpha is one of my all-time favorites. The Russians really pushed the technological envelope with this project at a time when we had no torpedoes to stop this thing (unless you could get in a close trailing position and launch before they detected the weapon.)

I am extensively changing some aspects of this model. The joints between T2/T3 use a single frame, instead of 3 for a larger bonding surface. T3/T4 will get the same treatment. I've also increased the thickness of the frames from 7.5 to 12mm, which not only adds more structural integrity to the bond joint but significantly increases the size of the "lip" when aligning the hulls. I'm a big believer in index marks as well for precision alignment.

My references show a much longer bow plane, which almost doubles the size; I started added trim tabs to them last night while overhauling the bow, which I reduced the taper a bit on and added more topside to. In addition, the bow planes are relocated lower, rather than near the center of the sides.

Mesh-wise, there is a lack of geometric symmetry on all parts, making mods a lot more work but the end result is worth the effort and makes later changes much simpler. That's one of the huge differences between modeling in CAD and modeling in a straight 3D environment where the mesh is directly manipulated. Once a CAD program does the STL conversion for printing, the mesh gets completely asymmetrical (The measurements are correct, but the geometry is out of whack.) Re-building the mesh puts this right and the subsequent STL conversion keeps both the mesh symmetrical and measurements as intended. A lot of the scribed details are not perpendicular to the faces they're placed; in the case of the bow sonar dome, the depth varies in multiple places. This is not really noticeable by eye, but it's the kind of issue I try to avoid in my modeling - all depths stay equal.

There are very few sources of submarine modeling-specific information available for those who want to make their own hulls. If there's enough interest, I'll create a modeling series using Fusion 360 and my 3D modeling software together describing how to optimize a mesh for easier/faster printing at some point. I think now, more than ever it would be beneficial to give people another resource to learn about the foundations of 3D modeling/printing to help them explore other aspects of the hobby and allow them to make changes when desired. It isn't a skill that is learned quickly or easily; there's a lot of time and effort required to get good at it, but for simple things like designing your own endcaps or control surfaces, those aren't too difficult. So while it isn't for everyone, I'm sure some would benefit from it.

[rwtdiver]

Today I finished up the two Alfa hulls!



Next up is to fabricate the stern linkages (upper & lower rudder and dive planes) for the 1:72 scale, then I will fabricate the bow dive plane linkage system for both boats! The bow plane 3D files came out small, so I will be enlarging them a little off scale to enhance there operation!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[rwtdiver]

I have finally finished up the 3D printed roughly 1:72 scale Alfa!



As I stated before, this is just me messing around with my own off the wall design! The files for this boat hull are from Nautilus Drydocks 3D files of the 1:96 scale Alfa, which I have built! I am going to be using a 3.5" WTC cylinder, and using my own design for a piston type ballast system! This boat is completely scratch built and not a true 1:72 scale! I am not going to explain how I do this build! But, I will make sure to have lots of photos as I go with it.

Rob

"Firemen can stand the heat"

Special Note: I am going to move ALL my builds to one build blog in this forum! NOTE: New build blog: "Unorthodox Submarine Building"

[RCSubGuy]

I happen to have a built up 1/96 November for sale in my shop! :)

https://www.rc-submarine.com/product...-finished-hull

[Das Boot]

To me, the Alpha Class is just boring. There's been so many of them done. Give me the November, Hotel or the Yankee Class any day.