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We welcome anyone with a passion for submarines and a desire to learn and share knowledge about this fascinating hobby. Use of these forums indicates your intention to abide by our code of conduct:
1. No spam. All automated messages, advertisements, and links to competitor websites will be deleted immediately.
2. Please post in relevant sub-forums only. Messages posted in the wrong topic area will be removed and placed in the correct sub-forum by moderators.
3. Respect other users. No flaming or abusing fellow forum members. Users who continue to post inflammatory, abusive comments will be deleted from the forum after or without a warning.
4. No threats or harassment of other users will be tolerated. Any instance of threatening or harassing behavior is grounds for deletion from the forums.
5. No profanity or pornography is allowed. Posts containing adult material will be deleted.
6. No re-posting of copyrighted materials or other illegal content is allowed. Any posts containing illegal content or copyrighted materials will be deleted.
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Russian Alfa Class
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Will what you are lifting out of the water weigh more than 200 grams? Metric is so cool for us here, 1cc of water equals 1 gram of weight. 200 grams is around 7 ounces.If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.
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You don't need to guess anything.
Displacement is key when sizing ballast tanks, not weight. Water weighs 1kg-1000g for every 1L-1000ml of displacement, and will vary by less than 1% depending on temperature and mineral content.
We size ballast tanks based on the amount of water displaced. Most unreinforced plastics e.g. ABS, polystyrene, pvc tend to have the same mass as water, but filled plastics and composites like glassfibre reinforced hulls are denser. If you use weight then you end up with a tank which is too big. PLA is a pretty dense thermoplastic.
With conventional precast hulls, we don't tend to know the volume above the waterline, and with hand laid fibreglass, they can vary from hull to hull, so it's best to use empirical methods to find out the hull displacement. The method for doing that is straightforward, trim the boat for neutral buoyancy (or close to it), then use foam blocks to bring the boat to the required waterline. The volume of foam blocks will equal the displacement of the hull- or close enough, the weight of the foam itself skews things a little.
With a 3d printed file we have no such worries, you can split the boat at the intended waterline in CAD, then check the properties to find out the volume of the structure above the waterline- easy peasy lemon squeezy .Last edited by Subculture; 08-05-2021, 04:17 AM.Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/
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Originally posted by RanSan View PostCan anyone who has set up a boat tell us if this sound right.
I sliced the model at the waterline and got a volume of 5.782 cu in (94747.16 cu mm). This does not include the rudder or bulkheads.
Randy
DavidResident Luddite
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That's a smidge under 100ml or 3.5 ounces. Small tank if correct, those prints must be quite a thin cross section? Add on ten per cent to account for changing densities if you want the capacity to trim for different water densities.Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/
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Originally posted by rwtdiverSorry you guys! I did not mean to come off disrespectful to any of you! Sometimes with this hobby you can really get frustrated! Certainly did not mean to take out my frustrations on any of you! I understand you are just trying to help, and I do appreciate it!
Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"
Hey, Rob, I'm with you, pal. Basically I'm a non-math-seat-of-your-pants engineer. But, once you decide to do something professionally that requires some math and mechanical skills -- if you want the gig bad enough, you apply yourself and learn the math, and figure out the mechanics of those things you will be responsible for. Had to happen when you took on fire-fighting. And it happened to me when I became determined to qualify in submarines, and later join the diving community -- there ARE absolutes in those games!
Thing is, with a hobby, you can flop around and do things so-so. No one dies or gets hurt (now that I think about that, I remember that I almost killed Gene Berger with some bad advice... but that's another story). Hobby mistakes are classroom lessons, not life altering tragedy. You lose a model submarine? So what, you still go home at night.
Your ballast tank, if its close enough to get the boat under... good enough. In time you will come to realize the utility of a few basic principles, such as Andy posted here recently, and will learn to apply them to make your road just a little less rocky.
David
The HorribleResident Luddite
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The piston tank system is usually the simplest system of all. It generally has the fewest components and is very reliable in use. Many consider it complex, because unless the boat is large enough to house an Engel piston tank, you have to make it yourself.
There's no mathematics needed for this area. Essentially what we are talking about is a law of physics first set down by a chap much older than any of us here- Archimedes of Syracuse (circa 200bc).Time to DIVE IN! https://www.facebook.com/groups/133360626703083/
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Originally posted by rwtdiverToday I finished up all the file prints, and have moved on to the stern section! I have made the decision to go full out on this boat! (Yes it will DIVE) I am totally ready for the plunge. (No pun intended)
I have the brass pieces cut, and ready to install the sleeves and the shafts.
As you can see, the bottom rudder is larger (1/2" wide to 1 1/8" wide! I know this is not to scale, but i wanted to increase the boats turning radius for use in my pool.
Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"
DavidResident Luddite
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Originally posted by rwtdiver
the bottom rudder is larger (1/2" wide to 1 1/8" wide!, wanted to increase the boats turning radius for use in my pool.
Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"
Make it simple, make strong, make it work!
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