GATO! (It has begun)

[matthewnimmo]

Captain's Log:

My first cutting of the superstructure went well (I do need to get a different end for my dremel to handle these cuts, as the little grinding disc given doesn't quite do the trick and creates a thicker cut line than i want; but for this job it did just fine). I should have a lot more work done this weekend.

[trout]

Take a look at these: http://www.gyrostools.com/Circular-Saw-Blades,-Miniature---Works-with-*Dremel®-Miniature-Fine-Teeth-Circular-Saw-Blades/c15_43/p437/Saw-Blade-w/Mandrel-Set,-Fine-Teeth-2%22-Dia.--%2382-12015/product_info.html

[matthewnimmo]

So over the weekend I got some work done. First thing i did, was purchase that blade trout posted ... as i cannot find one at any store locally (guess people prefer to grind everything as thats all you find around here). Also, went ahead and purchased tank/airbrush combo and should be here within 3-5 days.

The project went pretty smooth over the weekend, only one goof and that was with the rudder (i managed to mess up my first hole as it didn't align with the bottom portion of the rudder, but no problem as I did manage to find a longer 1/16 drill bit that allowed me to go through the entire piece with from a single side).



Here's a close up of the work inside the stern before and after adding the bearings for the rudder shaft.


Then, lastly, I did the work on the white metal pieces and have them soaking in vinegar overnight. But, when i woke up this morning they were completely dissolved....just kidding ... they looked the same as the shinny pictures below. So, i'm a little confused on how long i'll need to keep them in the solution and/or if having them in vinegar doesn't discolor them as the acid would if i had that available? Keep in mind, I don't have a picture of them in the solution as they are still soaking as i'm writing this.



So, thoughts about the vinegar soaking? I am still doing alright with it? Need them in longer?

Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Damn! No darkening means no oxidation. Heat up the vinegar to a near boil (run the fan!) and soak and agitate. You want the metal to achieve at least a medium gray color. Kitchen slavery is woman's work!

Get the acid and stop screwing around! ....

Looking good.

David

[trout]

Matthew,
Looking good on the build. The rudder drilling is well done.
I found my acid at Fry's electronics. I am not sure where you live, so do not know if that helps at all. Radio Shack these days is not what it use to be. I went in there and asked about the acid and they all had deer in the headlights look on them. When I asked about wire gauge, I thought they were going to convulse and fall on the floor. Perhaps it is a Las Vegas thing, you may be blessed with knowledgeable clerks where you live. If I know of a way to ship some of this acid, I will give you some to use. PM me your address and I will see what I can do (if the boiling vinegar works let me know).
Peace,
tom

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Radio Shack has devolved into a toy-shop with smelly-kids as Clerks. To them a resistor is some ****-head carrying a sign on Wall-Street. Worthless twits selling batteries.

Anyway ...

Look up 'electronics' in the Yellow pages, call 'em and ask if they have any acid etching solution.

David

[matthewnimmo]

Ok, I think these are ready; but with soaking in vinegar without heating (as i was curious to see how long it would take for the purpose of those curious...and the fact that i don't have my airbrush in yet for priming). the picture below is what they look like after taking them out of the vinegar of soaking for 24 hours. Good enough David?

this one is the before =>


Also, when i get ready to prime these suckers (and my sub as well), just find some model paint primer from any hobby store or something different? If different where do you guys recommend me going? Also, when painting/priming etc through these airbrushes is it wise to cut the substances with lacquer .. like 50/50%?

Thanks gang!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

No, the metal is not pickled enough. Get the acid!

I'm going to take some pictures, then write up a proper text and will walk you through the primer and paints. Prepare for sesory OVERLOAD!!!!

Be afraid .... be very afraid.


The Modeler whoes Name must not be Mentioned

[matthewnimmo]

I'm looking forward to that write-up David, will be extremely helpful:) And to make sure i don't F'up. So, trying to find Ferric Chloride locally is like trying to find a plastic magnet ... the **** doesn't exist around here locally. I may have to order it online. This is what I've found. I think this is correct.

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=70125782#tab=overview

Thanks,

[trout]

Yup, that is the stuff.

[matthewnimmo]

Ok, the stuff is ordered, should be here in 2-5 freaking days:( ugh....so i'll move on to another part of the sub.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

No, the metal is not pickled enough. Get the acid!

I'm going to take some pictures, then write up a proper text and will walk you through the primer and paints. Prepare for sesory OVERLOAD!!!!

Be afraid .... be very afraid.


The Modeler whoes Name must not be Mentioned

OK, To properly pickle most non-Ferris metals you want to dunk the work in Ferric Chloride acid. You get this stuff from electronic supply houses -- they sell it to those who acid-cut circuit boards. And how do you tell if the white metal (95% Tin, 5% Antimony) is properly pickled (oxidized)? When it turns gray like in the below shot. Note how a copper bearing alloy (brass in this case) turns a very flat brownish color when oxidized. Pickling induces zillions (yes, I checked with Forbin, that's a real number!) of little pits to the surface of the metal, making it a much more receptive substrate to primer adhesion than when it's smooth. The acid won't attack CA, primer, filler, or most paints, so you can pickle over 'worked' parts.



Now, as to the primer and thinner to use: High quality stuff. Find a dealer of DuPont paint systems and get some of their Nesan 421-23. Only cut it with DuPont lacquer thinner -- get the moderate temperature stuff. For starters, cut the primer with a 50-50 primer/thinner ratio, then cut further to your taste, and what the air-brush/gun can handle.

Notice in the shot below that there's a bottle of pre-mix -- It's about a 75-25 cut, almost the thickness of syrup, the H-Model Paasche can squirt that if set at 30 PSI and equipped with the big tip. I typically keep the gun loaded and dirty -- this stuff is easy to clean with thinner and brushes, so no need to be a clean-freak with the primer gun.

I used to use the DuPont 31S primer, but that **** now costs about two-hundred bucks a gallon. Thank you, California! ... FREAKS!

Rattle-can primer is OK, but not as good as the DuPont stuff. Test on a discarded model first. I like the Krylon gray primer when I have to use the stuff. Otherwise, it's me and Mr. DuPont, all the way!



I use the two-part polyurethane paints of the ChromaColor line. Another fine DuPont product. The hardener is called, 'basemaker'. Whatever! Great stuff, and you can get custom mixes of color at the shop you buy this stuff from, just bring in a color sample for scanning and you're in business.



Below are some points on weathering techniques and mediums.

[matthewnimmo]

David, thank you so much! This write-up is extremely helpful and the pictures are great! I do have some questions (naturally) as I’m use to the typical “go to hobby store model paints” and not the items you’ve mentioned.

1) The Chroma product line of DuPont (I think that’s who you said makes the stuff) has the ChromaSystem Basemaker (which is what you called the hardener), then I see the ChromaBase (not sure what this is exactly for…have an idea), and lastly I see the ChromaClear (is this the stuff that you put on last or something?). So with those products. Am I mixing the basemaker with a chromacolor to use on the model?

2) The picture with the color wheel and few bottles of paint (are those the ChromaColor line you spoke about?)

3) What exactly does the color wheel help you achieve? Is it one of those wheels that tells you what colors complement one another or something? Hard to see the fine details in the picture

4) This being a model that will be submerged … I noticed you have chalks and other smaller tubes of paints along with the picture. I can see the paint drying/curing and being fine when in the water; but how does the chalk work being in water?


Sorry for my ignorance (btw got my compressor and airbrush in finally … its gravity feed double action … so should do the trick…might take more passes than a bottom fed brush, but I’m ok with that).

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The ChromaColor and ChromaClear are two different systems with their own specific hardeners. You can't mix 'em. You first mix and lay down the color, then mix up your ChromaClear with the amount of flattener needed to get the sheen you want, then overcoat the model with that (after all painting and weathering has gone down). The clear does two things: it protects the paint and weathering mediums from handling and the elements, and standardizes the sheen your want the finish to posses (from dead flat to shiny 'wet' look).

The bottles of paint by the color wheel (used to find what basic colors to mix to achieve the desired color) are water soluble acrylics. I also use oil paint, pastel chalks, and crayons (the expensive 'artist' ones, not the kid-stuff) -- these and other mediums used during the weathering process.

I have spoken, so let it be written!....

[matthewnimmo]

David:

Thanks again for your reply! So, I think i'm getting it... the ChromaColor and CromaClear do the same stuff (which is protect the colors that one has applied to the model)?

So, with my model (which i will be doing weathering on as well) I'll need the following correct?

1) primer and lacquer you suggested (dupont stuff).
2) ChromaClear with the ChromaSystem Basemaker (7175S) ... what product do i need to mix with the ChromaCleer to flatten it (or is that part of the mechanics of the Basemaker besides hardening?
3) Other soluable acyrlics, oil pants, pastel chalks, big boy crayons, etc for my basic painting and weathering.

Then these are the steps i'd go by?

1) primer obviously
2) Apply basic colors (color scheme)
3) Apply weathering (if wanted)
4) Apply ChromaClear (for flattening and sealing)

Is that correct?

Also, this is what i'm thinking about having my model look like (weathering and possible color wise). http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gall.../mg-index.html Any tips on colors i should pick up to achieve this type of weathering (like are there some favorites people like to use for best looking rust/fading/greening of copper/brass/etc)