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  • HardRock
    Vice Admiral
    • Mar 2013
    • 1609

    Rain, rain and more rain makes for some shed time. I think I have finally got the tail end sorted out.

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    I had a go at fitting those lifting/salvage thingys. They might be a bit proud of the deck at the moment. The thought was that they would be better moulded in rather than added on later. If they don't work I'll just sand them off!

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    • JHapprich
      Captain
      • Oct 2017
      • 712

      Hey Scott! Great level of detail on the deck! Concerning the salvage anchors, i am not sure about November, but from the Echo and Juliett i know them beeing installed in a flat rounded through that used to be painted bright white. Those were of oval shape on the bow and circular round at the stern.
      Ps the sub now looks quite 'male' i think.har har har

      Comment

      • HardRock
        Vice Admiral
        • Mar 2013
        • 1609

        You are a very sick man, Jörg.

        Comment

        • He Who Shall Not Be Named
          Moderator
          • Aug 2008
          • 12253

          Originally posted by HardRock
          Fantastic work.
          We're getting so much help from our fellow partners in crime. It's most heartening. I think I have a good handle on the masts and antennas now -- will start in on the array once I get my hands on a sail. That way I'm sure of proper integration of bridge, masts and antennas, with the opening atop the sail as well as the foundation formed within the sail to support all that detail work.I s

          I see you've identified another set of those lifting fittings atop the hull, aft of the sail. Here's another thought, applicable to the first boat of the class: The initial mission of the NOVEMBER was to house and launch one very large torpedo. It only could have been loaded externally through the muzzle. Maybe those lifting fittings were to yank the bow high enough out of the water to get the torpedo tube muzzle door above the water?

          David
          Who is John Galt?

          Comment

          • JHapprich
            Captain
            • Oct 2017
            • 712

            Nope, those fittings - that by the way STRICTLY REMINDED ME OF THE SPEAR AND SHIELD SYMBOL, SCOTT ( MATE, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF ME ;-) ) - were to lift the sub in the case of sinking. There is actually an illustration of an India raising a November. I assume the t-15 would have been loaded by trimming the boat hard to the stern just the same way they loaded torps into the Julietts with the bow high up above waterlevel. David, could that manouver be done with us subs too? I know the russian boats could do it because of their large reserve buoyancy and their high freeboard. Jörg (a very sane man)

            Comment

            • JHapprich
              Captain
              • Oct 2017
              • 712

              Scott shame on me just read my previous post again and i see it know.loughing myself to dead at the moment. Need to work on my English

              Comment

              • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                Moderator
                • Aug 2008
                • 12253

                Originally posted by JHapprich
                Nope, those fittings - that by the way STRICTLY REMINDED ME OF THE SPEAR AND SHIELD SYMBOL, SCOTT ( MATE, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING OF ME ;-) ) - were to lift the sub in the case of sinking. There is actually an illustration of an India raising a November. I assume the t-15 would have been loaded by trimming the boat hard to the stern just the same way they loaded torps into the Julietts with the bow high up above waterlevel. David, could that manouver be done with us subs too? I know the russian boats could do it because of their large reserve buoyancy and their high freeboard. Jörg (a very sane man)
                Thanks for the clarification on the lifting fixtures, Jorg.

                During dive-school they covered muzzle loading 19-inch weapons through the stern tubes of SKATE class submarines. The weapon went in wet which put some burden on the boats TM's to douche the fish down with fresh-water once in the racks.

                The boat was not trimmed light aft. It was in normal surface trim while tied up to the pier, barge-crane, or Tender. The weapon was swung over the pier by crane, divers in the water guided the weapon from the surface to the depth of the torpedo tubes centerline. The divers talked or used line pull signals to the dive Supervisor
                who in turn directed the crane operator as the torpedo was guided, ass-end-first into the open muzzle of the tube. Once half-way into the tube the lifting strap was removed from the weapon (most likely an early mod of the MK 37), and the divers then pushed the thing (about 100 lbs. negatively buoyant in the war-shot configuration) the rest of the way into the tube. The room TM's secured the stop-bolt, closed the muzzle door, drained the tube, and yanked the weapon into the skid for a wash-down and checks.



                As far as I know the only American combatants to employ muzzle loading of torpedoes were the SKATES (and maybe the HALIBUT?). And that was an in-water job.

                David
                Who is John Galt?

                Comment

                • HardRock
                  Vice Admiral
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 1609

                  Nothing wrong with your English, Mate. I lived in Lower Saxony for four years and I can barley remember a word of German!
                  (Es ist weil ich alt bin).

                  Comment

                  • HardRock
                    Vice Admiral
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 1609

                    Rope signals!!! I remember that **** - one pull on the rope - turn and face your shot; two pulls go left; three pulls go right etc etc. We used to call it "rope a dope". Some silly ******* on the surface would have you going round and round in circles for hours for no apparent reason. The vis was so bad in those days that anything over 60 feet went into the book as a night dive. Ahhh...memories. What was I talking about?

                    Comment

                    • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                      Moderator
                      • Aug 2008
                      • 12253

                      Originally posted by HardRock
                      Rope signals!!! I remember that **** - one pull on the rope - turn and face your shot; two pulls go left; three pulls go right etc etc. We used to call it "rope a dope". Some silly ******* on the surface would have you going round and round in circles for hours for no apparent reason. The vis was so bad in those days that anything over 60 feet went into the book as a night dive. Ahhh...memories. What was I talking about?
                      Harbor diving (ships husbandry where 90% of working dives are done) is like working in a glass of chocolate milk that's gone bad.

                      Navy Divers had two sets of signals. The primary was the basic ****: 1-OK, 2-give me slack, 3-take in my slack, 4-trouble, pull me up. Then there was the 'searching' signals (from tender to diver, and only when walking the bottom): 7-on/off searching signals, 1- move to your left, 2- move to your other left, dumb-ass!, 3-back away from umbilical, 4-march towards umbilical.

                      LOL. The things we remember! Today I have to be reminded which pills to take.

                      David
                      Who is John Galt?

                      Comment

                      • Albion
                        Captain
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 651

                        Apologies if mentioned before. A friends Brother was a former royal marine Diver. He mentioned when in harbour divers would go out and inspect the hull for any naughties places on it. Being the “marine” he was always expected to take the keel, while regular navy took the sides. His explanation involved sometimes being up to chest height in mud , with the rise and fall of the ship pushing his head down into the mud as he tried to feel his way along the keel. I’ve recreationally dived in some nasty restricted places , but that process sounds hideous.
                        Next time someone points out it takes 42 muscles to frown, point out it will only take 4 muscles to b1tch slap them if they tell you how mnay muscles you need to smile:pop

                        Comment

                        • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                          Moderator
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 12253

                          Originally posted by Albion
                          Apologies if mentioned before. A friends Brother was a former royal marine Diver. He mentioned when in harbour divers would go out and inspect the hull for any naughties places on it. Being the “marine” he was always expected to take the keel, while regular navy took the sides. His explanation involved sometimes being up to chest height in mud , with the rise and fall of the ship pushing his head down into the mud as he tried to feel his way along the keel. I’ve recreationally dived in some nasty restricted places , but that process sounds hideous.
                          I once spent half a day waiting for high-tide to get out from under the USS SARATOGA. Dive Supervisor failed to check the tide charts before sending me off to survey bilge keel zincs. To this day I can still smell the mud.

                          David
                          Who is John Galt?

                          Comment

                          • HardRock
                            Vice Admiral
                            • Mar 2013
                            • 1609

                            Getting toward the end of detailing this thing. The question now is, safety rail or not? Views?

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                            • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                              Moderator
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 12253

                              Originally posted by HardRock
                              Getting toward the end of detailing this thing. The question now is, safety rail or not? Views?

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                              As a detail and finish freak like me puts a lot of work in 'cleaning up' the hull and sail pieces, the safety track (and with this boat the emergency towing harness) would get in the way of the putty and sanding chores. The two long-running safety tracks (on Soviet boats, levitated pipes) and towing harness are items I would add once all the finishing work was complete and just before puttying down the paint.

                              But most guys are not as anal about the finish as me, so incorporating those items into the GRP hull would be a good idea, and not a problem to produce as you're going the glove-mother mold route where undercuts don't matter.

                              David
                              Who is John Galt?

                              Comment

                              • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                                Moderator
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 12253

                                ….. and straighten up that port bow plane upper door upper edge engraved line, damnit!

                                But, I must say, what a stunningly convincing display that hull is now with all that inlayed detailing! Love that GRP looking sonar window!

                                David
                                The Horrible
                                Who is John Galt?

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