Oscar Continued

[KevinMc]

Modern supply ships and tugs do have them, operated through a computer, and all you have to do is move a joystick to move the ship exactly corresponding how you moved the joystick (incluiding turns). This gives you total and easier control.

And there in lies the problem - I can say from personal experience that I found managing two throttles and the rudder was detracting from my enjoyment of running, I can't imagine adding a couple of side thrusters to the mix. Of course I recognize that everyone gets their jollies from a different aspect of the hobby so what was driving me nuts may be exactly what Mark is looking for and I look forward to hearing the results of his experiments.

[reddevil]

Of course an independent propeller control combined with a thurster and adequate rudder movements will allow you to move the sub sideway. That's one of the most funny and spectacular maneuvres you can do with a ship fitted with all those items. Modern supply ships and tugs do have them, operated through a computer, and all you have to do is move a joystick to move the ship exactly corresponding how you moved the joystick (incluiding turns). This gives you total and easier control.

[KevinMc]

Kevin, as you probably can guess I also use independant control of each prop and can turn it around pretty good. This is just another gadget or gizmo if you will, that I wanted to add to the boat.

I couldn't recall if you'd done the diff throttles or not so I wanted to point out doing the easy stuff before cutting more holes in your hull.

As Tom says, far be it for me to try to dissuade anyone from trying something out on their boat. I can't wait to hear about your results!

[trout]

Mark,
i will be the last one to say don't do it. It is experimenting like that bring new innovations. Go for it!

[greenman407]

I know it will work when the boat is still or going slow, which is where I plan on using it the most. However, If it,in concert with the rudders, will improve the turn radius, then there is some payback, and we can go from there. One thing that I want to experiment with is working at high forward speeds. If we change the angle that the water jet exits the hull we may increase or decrease its effectiveness. For example. If youve ever paddled a canoe, you know that if you want to turn , you can do it several ways. If you are sitting in the rear, you can use your oar as a rudder. Or you can just stick it in the water as your moving forward and rotate it until the widest profile of the oar is causing drag on that side and the bow will come around. Therefore if the stern jets are pointed forward by, say 30 degrees, it will cause drag on that side. How much?..............we will see.

[greenman407]

Wow! What a can of worms I have opened. Thanks Guys for all the input. Kevin, as you probably can guess I also use independant control of each prop and can turn it around pretty good. This is just another gadget or gizmo if you will, that I wanted to add to the boat. As far as how much power they will have , If you believe the stats on this pump, pretty powerful. Thats why I ordered only one. Ill test it out first and If it seems doable, Ill proceed or look for another one.
As far as whether it will work or not, Salvador Moran wrote an article for the SCR, notably December 2009, showing the good results he had on his Sheerline Akula which is 1/96. My Oscar is also 1/96 but somewhat bigger. Thats why high flow pumps will be needed. Whatever happens , I will take it. If I dont like it Ill take it out or make some changes. At any rate, its new territory for me so I wont get bored. The pump is supposed to be here first part of March. As usual, Ill share all my DEEP.......DARK.......Secrets with you.................dudes.

[KevinMc]

While I can't speak to how effective thrusters may or may not be, I can speak to independant control of each of the screws - At medium and low speeds it'll turn your pig into a ballerina. I put an ESC on each screw on my OSCAR about four years back and initially crontrolled them from indepenant controls on the transmitter. This got me a great deal of control over the boat, but was a real challenge to manage. (Constant coordination of two throttles and the rudder was a lot to manage.) Later still I came up with an custom X-tail mixer specifically for driving twin screws (Throttle Jockey) and that took the added workload away. I could parallel park my OSCAR if I had to.

I don't recall if you've got independant control of your screws now, if not I dare say that adding that would be less work then adding thrusters.

[reddevil]

Have a look on ENGEL's web page about side thrusters. Regarding the real ones turning radius, I have commented about with some Spanish Navy submarine officers and the say that there are two things to be considered: 1. Rudders AHEAD propellers. 2. And which is more: part of the rudder OVER the water when surfaced. These makes they all miserably maneuverable when surfaced. Remember they are thought and designed to give their best performance UNDER water and at quite high speed. Mostly all of them have a poor turning radius when surfaced. That's why they all berth and unberth asisted by tugs

[vital.spark]

Similar situation with the Seawolf. The turning radius sucks! (aprox. 20') I tape a extension on the lower rudder for a slight improvement. (aprox.15') It would be interesting to find out what the real life Skippers have to say about these subs?

[reddevil]

Keep in mind the huge underwater ammount of hull this baby has. Unless the thuster is VERY powerfull, its effect won't be noticeable, and less at high speed. In full scale ships, thrusters are only used at low speed (under 3 to 5 knts.) My own proffesional experience at sea confirms this. With my supply ship model, as its thruster is quite powerful, I can make thight turns even at high speed. It's a ROBBE one.

[Subculture]

How about an azimuth thruster?

Best to build boats with an aspect ratio of 8:1 or under if you want them to turn well. Copy the fish, they've had it sussed for millennia!

[trout]

I read a thread on a different forum with Skip Assay about this very topic regarding the Neptune SB-1. Skip said the same thing with any forward motion (or reverse I assumed) the thrusters were not very effective, but with out that motion it would work. So this guy argues with him about it and builds it into his Thunder Tiger and guess what? Skip was right. Sofor pulling away from the dock or shore or meneuvering back to dock, perfect. Turning radius small at stand still also a yes. Other than that increase rudder surface area (or add a clear attachment to the rudder) might be a better move.

[roedj]

Perhaps it might help to ask Kevin McHale about this idea. As I recall, thrusters have been tried on the 1/96 model of a Typhoon and while they had some effect while the sub was not moving forward they had very little effect while underway.
I'd ask around before spending time and money on this idea.

Dan

[greenman407]

As I recall, this thing steers like a pig. How about we do something about it. I am chewing on something................Im thinking of installing bow and stern thrusters. For the purpose of enhanced mobility. HOW? http://www.ebay.com/itm/290948150859...84.m1497.l2649

I ordered one of these. When it arrives and seems suitable, I will put one on each corner of the boat and put a exhaust port facing to the outside. When I want to move away from the shore I can engage two on the same side to push it away. When I want to turn to port, in addition to the rudders ,I can engage one on the port rear and one on the starboard bow. Ill also need to electronic switches and two radio channels.

[greenman407]