Bow and Sail Planes for 1/96 Dynamic Diver Subs -- worth it or needless complication?

[RazorAntilles]

I'm working on a 1/96 Los Angeles, and my initial plan was to make the sail planes functional by attaching them to the same control arm that will control the rear dive planes through means of a long linkage across the top of the hull on the inside, but the more I think about it... do actuating bow/sail planes really help and add controllability, or are they needless complication? I'm giving real thought to starting a 1/96 Alfa later this year, and I have a 1/144 Typhoon on the bench with the LA already, but the conundrum of functional forward planes is starting to rear up. I'm guessing for a bigger boat like the Typhoon having controllable bow planes to help that monster get under and stay under is a good thing, but for the LA... does it really make sense? Especially in a dynamic dive setup?

Thoughts, suggestions, and experience would be appreciated!

[JHapprich]

I think for dynamic diving the sternplanes would suffice, i doubt the sail planes would have much of an effect and they would only be useful under water. You could/might/should connect an oversteerable programmable pitch controller to the stern planes and ride the sail planes manually, put the planes on one single channel and set the pitch controller to take control until stick input exceeds 50 percent so youd fly with fine tuning pitch via sail and let the computer hold the level. Makes a lot more sense for permantently submerged bow planes far away from the center of the boat to create a proper momentum.
personally, id make the saol planes static and go with stern planes only.
I'd suggest buying Bob Martin's book for the basics.

Now move on and secure the pond from Communism, otherwise my widowmakers will come over and chase your sub down;-)

[Albacore 569]

it depends. you need a down angle to hold the boat down at speed. bow planes a pre- set angle you predetermine at the lake would be best as bow or sail planes maintain depth , stern planes angle.. Used just stern planes my skipjack albacore but I always had a ballast tank to flood and create near neutral buoyancy though. so the natural forces to rise was mild to benign. On certain submarines, like Type XVIIB Walter boat model, a fixed canard like bow plane is mandatory for pitch control. the real boat needed it for pitch stability at a speed. needed some bite.

I think it's a case of over thinking this, get her in the water a pool and test how she handles and make adjustments. .

[trout]

I do like to use my dive planes or at least have them to use in an emergency. It is not necessary for dynamic diving. However, designing them to be adjustable will help you. You can add a stronger downward pitch if your boat is light/buoyant or more level if the slightest forward motion causes it to dive. Heck there are so many variables there. If you like to go slow a higher angle downward will allow you to achieve your dive. If you are a speed demon, then maybe having your dive planes at level is what you need. Is this making sense? I have seen boat so buoyant that just to get it to somewhat dive it had to have full throttle. As Steve said “get her in the pool and test how she handles” and I would add see how you like to handle the sub. I like a slow relaxing run (unless I am dodging David’s antics or trying to chase him). Some like to run their subs like it is an Indy 500 race. Get a feel of what you like and adjust the bow planes to your liking or for best performance.

[redboat219]

Check our Matthew Homeier's dynamic diving 1/125 USS Narwhal from the 2024 Subfest redux. AFAIK fixed sail planes.

[redboat219]

periscope depth

https://youtu.be/SFt089o-kmc?si=nRI_0EAz3VZzphnZ

[RCSubGuy]

You should realize that the function of the planes is different between bow/fairwaters and stern planes. Stern planes are best suited to controlling the PITCH of the boat. Forward planes are best suited to controlling the DEPTH.

WIth a dynamic diver, you need more speed to keep the boat under. More speed means the effect that the planes have is going to be multiplied. What I typically see with dynamic divers with only stern planes is pronounced porpoising as the stern planes are forced to undertake the functions of both pitch and depth keeping.

Integration of separately controllable forward planes will result in a far more controlled model with less porpoising.