Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Concerning spontaneous bubble formation SubFest 2022

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Concerning spontaneous bubble formation SubFest 2022

    This article explains why at times, specifically demonstrated at Cohutta GA this year, we experienced the phenomena of bubbles forming on ALL exposed surfaces of ones hull from (internal/external) , WTC, watertight compartment(s), etc that ultimately affected ones buoyancy.

    As one who enjoys leaving his boats moored in standby mode as opposed to dragging them in and out, I noticed it early on when I saw the bubbles and noticed how my boat's submerged trim was vastly affected. Again...these bubbles form on ALL surfaces exposed to water, what you see and what you don't.

    Bob indicated this phenomena on his recently released video. Underwater RC Submarine Action! - FPV vs. Onboard HD
    Thank you Dave M. (HWSNBN) for the awesome footage, but I call "shenanigans" to your "Resident Luddite" claim. Who the %$^% uses FPV video in this hobby but you???

    Goes to show MANY factors can affect ones trim on any given patrol. We just haapened to have the right conditions this year.
    Same old adage, "Defecation occurs."


    Why do bubbles form if a glass of water is left alone for a while? - Scientific American

    The more you know....
    Last edited by QuarterMaster; 11-30-2022, 01:48 PM.
    v/r "Sub" Ed

    Silent Service "Cold War" Veteran (The good years!)
    NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.
    USS ULYSSES S GRANT-USS SHARK-USS NAUTILUS-USS KEY WEST-USS BLUEBACK-USS PATRICK HENRY-K432-U25-SSRN SEAVIEW-PROTEUS-NAUTILUS

  • #2
    Originally posted by QuarterMaster View Post
    This article explains why at times, specifically demonstrated at Cohutta GA this year, we experienced the phenomena of bubbles forming on ALL exposed surfaces of ones hull from (internal/external) , WTC, watertight compartment(s), etc that ultimately affected ones buoyancy.

    As one who enjoys leaving his boats moored in standby mode as opposed to dragging them in and out, I noticed it early on when I saw the bubbles and noticed how my boat's submerged trim was vastly affected. Again...these bubbles form on ALL surfaces exposed to water, what you see and what you don't.

    Bob indicated this phenomena on his recently released video. Underwater RC Submarine Action! - FPV vs. Onboard HD
    Thank you Dave M. (HWSNBN) for the awesome footage, but I call "shenanigans" to your "Resident Luddite" claim. Who the %$^% uses FPV video in this hobby but you???

    Goes to show MANY factors can affect ones trim on any given patrol. We just haapened to have the right conditions this year.
    Same old adage, "Defecation occurs."


    Why do bubbles form if a glass of water is left alone for a while? - Scientific American

    The more you know....
    Good catch, Ed.

    When doing an effects shoot -- where the miniature might be in the water a significant time between takes: Before the first dunking of the day, and whenever it was brought topside, I sprayed the miniature down with a solution of water mixed with a little dishwashing detergent. This reduced the surface-tension between the models surface and those nasty little bubbles. Still, on occasion, a diver would have to go over the models surface with a big, soft haired paint brush to knock the bubbles loose just before another take.


    Last edited by He Who Shall Not Be Named; 11-30-2022, 02:30 PM.
    Resident Luddite

    Comment


    • #3
      We use this stuff if I could duplicate the bubbles I would test this... it's a shower spray...and all it does is knock down the surface tension...by doing so it sheets away the soap scum before it dries to concretion...as far as I can tell..it has no bleach or cleaner..it is kind of a scam in that it doesn't clean the shower...it just keeps the shower clean. It's cheap and it smells nice to..

      https://www.target.com/p/method-euca...z/-/A-15511818

      I Really think it would keep that dreaded effervescence away -BG

      Sent 1.18hrs out from 33456ft at 457kts from my Android phone
      ​​​​​

      Comment


      • #4
        How about installing a shampoo dispenser along the side of the hull to decrease surface tension and drag. Something ike what they use to visualize fluid flow in water tunnels but instead of colored dyes it releases soap water.
        Click image for larger version

Name:	images (1) (13).jpg
Views:	123
Size:	15.4 KB
ID:	167216
        Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

        Comment


        • #5
          This is why I love you guys! Always the "Rube Goldberg" Solution!!

          Makes me wanna coin a new term for this in our RC Sub community.

          The "Frank-in-stein", both a verb and noun. In honor of my good bud, the man behind the most feature added RC Submarine known to mankind, Frank Salerno and his SSRN SEAVIEW!

          Aside from chemicals (sprayed on ALL wet surfaces) or turning the pond into a bubble bath.​..​

          Just keep lead weights in the field kit. Add as necessary for the day.

          It's a good idea anyway as most fiberglass hulls, and I'm sure FDM hulls do as well, absorb water over time. So initially trimming your boat light the first time is a good idea. I've noticed my boats trim changes from the start of a season when it sat in the drier winter months, only to change trim over the summer as water soaks into the material displaying the air pockets, or capillary action via the strands..

          Also, it's not just that or the build up of bubbles, but a LOT of things affect water density, which of course affects buoyancy. The lead is a tried and true solution.

          Have you ever trimmed the boat at home, then go to a fun-run or event to find the trim is different? Can't tell you how many times I heard, "It was perfect this morning!" Happened to me more times than I can count, this also keeps it all interesting!

          Rich Kohlbrecher, with his multi award winning USS TILEFISH SS-307 1:48 Scale BALAO, would drive his boat close aboard and drop small fishing weights in the conning tower on the move. This would compensate for the weight loss of propel from the gas blows to maintain his always perfect PD. Now THAT is Seamanship! That was in the 90's, indicating that sometimes, old tech is the best tech.



          Last edited by QuarterMaster; 12-01-2022, 02:49 PM.
          v/r "Sub" Ed

          Silent Service "Cold War" Veteran (The good years!)
          NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.
          USS ULYSSES S GRANT-USS SHARK-USS NAUTILUS-USS KEY WEST-USS BLUEBACK-USS PATRICK HENRY-K432-U25-SSRN SEAVIEW-PROTEUS-NAUTILUS

          Comment


          • #6
            Aside from shampoo, you can also use dishwasher spot-rinse. It's specifically designed to break up surface tension in water and won't leave a soapy mess in your wake.

            I, personally, wouldn't worry about this, but hey... if someone wants to see if it will do anything for them, more power to you, just don't pollute the water in any way that will get us all kicked off the lake if you kill the fishes...


            Bob

            Comment


            • #7
              Those microbubbles at Red Clay are most probably made up of CO2 dissolved in the water due to a natural carbonation process. Movement of the hull in the water create areas of low pressure causing to CO2 to degas out of the water.

              How about putting a mechanical device like a servo inside the hull to "tap" the hull to knock the bubbles off?
              Last edited by redboat219; 12-01-2022, 07:37 PM.
              Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

              Comment


              • #8
                Probably easier to just drive close to shore every now and again, grab the boat and shake the beejeezus out of it for a second.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by RCSubGuy View Post
                  Probably easier to just drive close to shore every now and again, grab the boat and shake the beejeezus out of it for a second.
                  Yup. That's what I do most of the time. We're drifting off into stupid-land here.
                  Resident Luddite

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by QuarterMaster;n167225

                    [FONT=Arial
                    Just keep lead weights in the field kit. Add as necessary for the day.[/FONT]

                    Rich Kohlbrecher, with his multi award winning USS TILEFISH SS-307 1:48 Scale BALAO, would drive his boat close aboard and drop small fishing weights in the conning tower on the move. This would compensate for the weight loss of propel from the gas blows to maintain his always perfect PD. Now THAT is Seamanship! That was in the 90's, indicating that sometimes, old tech is the best tech.



                    What was I saying???
                    Click image for larger version

Name:	001.png
Views:	93
Size:	9.2 KB
ID:	167256
                    v/r "Sub" Ed

                    Silent Service "Cold War" Veteran (The good years!)
                    NEVER underestimate the power of a Sailor who served aboard a submarine.
                    USS ULYSSES S GRANT-USS SHARK-USS NAUTILUS-USS KEY WEST-USS BLUEBACK-USS PATRICK HENRY-K432-U25-SSRN SEAVIEW-PROTEUS-NAUTILUS

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This would be an ieal set-up for Cohutta. John's scratchbuilt Nautilus ballast system https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxjoLEog3...J2SVYbjJYyf082
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by redboat219 View Post
                        This would be an ieal set-up for Cohutta. John's scratchbuilt Nautilus ballast system https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxjoLEog3...J2SVYbjJYyf082
                        Why would it be perfect for Cohutta? I'm confused as to why it's any better than any other system employed there...

                        Bob

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RCSubGuy View Post

                          Why would it be perfect for Cohutta? I'm confused as to why it's any better than any other system employed there...

                          Bob
                          Not saying it's better than the other ballast systems but ideal for the aforementioned conditions at Cohutta.

                          You can change the boat's bouyancy to counter the effects of the bubbles. Boat rising due to too many bubbles take in more water in the piston tank. Bubbles suddenly dislodged and boat sinks pump water out. More bubbles form at the bow causing it to pitch up pump in more water at the bow to compensate.
                          Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by redboat219 View Post

                            Not saying it's better than the other ballast systems but ideal for the aforementioned conditions at Cohutta.

                            You can change the boat's bouyancy to counter the effects of the bubbles. Boat rising due to too many bubbles take in more water in the piston tank. Bubbles suddenly dislodged and boat sinks pump water out. More bubbles form at the bow causing it to pitch up pump in more water at the bow to compensate.
                            Your proposal/suggestion -- to those of us who have actual, honest to God, practical experience assembling/building and operating r/c submarine -- is a stunning example of 'complexity warship'.

                            Stop it!

                            You're leading the uninitiated down a thorn infested path; you are making the simple needlessly hard.

                            KISS

                            David
                            The Horrible
                            Resident Luddite

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I totally agree David's view, this hobby needs simple methodology , as we often say: The more simpler, the more reliable. You are making us difficult, Redboat!! Throwing that useless theory away and make things easier!

                              J

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X