3D Printer

[SubDude]

You are making great use of the Ender's build volume. Looks like an aftermarket glass platform?

I'm using the same printer currently to print out the 1/32 Type II. Coming along nicely. A brilliantly engineered build for close to nothing in costs.

I replaced the magnetic build surface. I went to Lowe's and had them cut a piece of mirror to fit. Held on with 4 medium binding clips. Magigoo adheres the part while hot. Once cool it pops off. It holds small parts more tenaciously even after cooling. I do use a skirt or brim to help adhere parts like the hull sections. Works very well.

[SubDude]

First and foremost, thank you all for providing your expertise on using 3D print technology in the construction of RC submarines etc. I am definitely a newbie but recently purchased the Ender 3 Pro V2 and am slowly easing my way up the learning curve. I am really encouraged by the print size RCJetDude on your project but was wondering if you have had any leveling issues or problems with the print not adhering to the base plate. One of my only complaints with this printer is the need for leveling your base plate before every print. Any tips for this rookie? In any event, I am looking forward to tracking your progress and really appreciate all of the tips and constructive advice all of the members have offered thus far.

Once the level is set I have found it needs little adjustment. In fact, I have not had to mess with the leveling knobs in I can't remember how long. Now, I do have stiffer than stock springs on it. They came with the metal extruder I added. Both are very worthwhile. I also have an upgraded motherboard and touch screen display as well as a different nozzle thermistor. I recalibrated the bed and nozzle PID's to operate at the higher temps for ASA and it has been bullet proof. I also replaced the magnetic build surface with a piece of mirror and I use Magigo to adhere the part to the mirror. The build surface must be smooth for it to work properly. So far it has been cranking out part after part without fail or issue. Nozzle is 260C, Bed is 90C and ambient is 45C. I use the black Polymaker Polylite ASA. My printer is in my unheated basement in a heated enclosure. I rarely if at all smell any fumes from it but will most likely vent it and the enclosure for my Ender 5 Plus when I get it set up. I will be making the same changes to the 5 Plus that I made to the 3 Pro. I will try the BL Touch on the 5 but it is just another thing to screw up and I have seen it happen on a buddies printer but it was mainly the result of how he was printing.

[SubDude]

The slicer has no effect on the faceting - it only affects the layer properties when the printer extrudes the hot noodle of plastic.

The faceting is caused by the modeling, which needs to be modified within Fusion 360 before outputting as a STL.

CC

Gotcha. I have saved the parts as .stl files in Fusion at the higher resolution. Previously it was just using the default medium. The mesh looks better.

[tifosi12]

[QUOTE=CC Clarke;n146451]

My first full on Fusion 360 project. Took me about 5 days and 2 versions but is now printing very nicely on my Ender 3 Pro using ASA filament. It's my take on a 1/72nd scale Columbia class. Will be 93" long with just over a 7" beam. I sat down and forced myself to learn what I did. At times it was very frustrating but I kept going. Also had some help along the way. I use Simplify 3D for my slicing software. My printer has been bullet proof aside from an issue where the wire inside the insulation of the power cable to the bed heater fatigued and broke. Took me two weeks to figure that one out but it is back up and running full bore. I just bought an Ender 5 Plus and will be bringing it online soon. Much bigger build volume so I could easily do a 1/48th Ohio now if I want but it will first be printing a large Seehund for a buddy of mine.

The Ender 5 is a nice machine, and your current Columbia print looks like a lot of fun. My only suggestion for improvement would be to increase the side count on the hull to minimize the faceting. It looks like you've got around 48 sides @ 3-4 mm thickness; I like to use 120 sides which drastically reduces the amount of post-sanding required. The size of this model would need a lot of laborious sanding!

I finally used some XTC-3D epoxy coating last week and highly recommend it. A couple of very thin coats will completely fill in FDM layer lines, (but isn't going to fix broad, visible faceting.) After that, very light sanding preps the surface for primer.

I've attached a freshly-printed and coated screw for comparison:



I look forward to seeing your finished result!

CC

Looking great. I bought the XTC-3D epoxy as well but when I read all the warning labels I got cold feet and put it away. It sounds like you need a space suit to touch the stuff. How did you handle it?

[tifosi12]

My first full on Fusion 360 project. Took me about 5 days and 2 versions but is now printing very nicely on my Ender 3 Pro using ASA filament. It's my take on a 1/72nd scale Columbia class. Will be 93" long with just over a 7" beam. I sat down and forced myself to learn what I did. At times it was very frustrating but I kept going. Also had some help along the way. I use Simplify 3D for my slicing software. My printer has been bullet proof aside from an issue where the wire inside the insulation of the power cable to the bed heater fatigued and broke. Took me two weeks to figure that one out but it is back up and running full bore. I just bought an Ender 5 Plus and will be bringing it online soon. Much bigger build volume so I could easily do a 1/48th Ohio now if I want but it will first be printing a large Seehund for a buddy of mine.

You are making great use of the Ender's build volume. Looks like an aftermarket glass platform?

I'm using the same printer currently to print out the 1/32 Type II. Coming along nicely. A brilliantly engineered build for close to nothing in costs.

[Subculture]

One of my only complaints with this printer is the need for leveling your base plate before every print. Any tips for this rookie?

I have an Ender 2, which is similar, but more basic and a bit smaller. On the build plate I ran some extra nuts up against the three bolts that attach the plate to the carrier, so they were firm on the plate, I also added a dab of threadlock to prevent them jarring loose. This helped enormously, but you'll still find the bed needs periodically levelling using the paper under the nozzle trick

I added a 3d touch sensor to my Ender 2 - e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRgWrepDUBE, this self levels and was £10 well spent. I removed the bedplate springs altogether, and locked the plate to the carrier. I also use a removable plate, which makes it much easier to remove prints without disturbing the rest of the machine. I always use a bit of glue stick on the plate before a new print.

I found i needed to muck about with the printer for several months before I got it working to my satisfaction.

I'm afraid 3d printing is like any other tool, takes time to learn it well, and the initial learning curve is steeper. I think your Ender 3 pro will need a lot less mods than my little Ender 2.

[CC Clarke]

When I get done with this thing any facets will be gone. It doesn't require as much sanding as you think. 80 grit works wonders. I use a high fill PU primer. One heavy coat, sand (an easy sanding at that. PU primer sands easier than plastic) and one more reduced coat of primer, wet sand with 400 if needed or run a Scotch Brite pad over it then paint. It works great for me. I am printing it at the scale it was designed at. My first time doing that. I may try printing the next section on a higher resolution in the slicer to see what it does. Currently set on medium. Always learning.

The slicer has no effect on the faceting - it only affects the layer properties when the printer extrudes the hot noodle of plastic.

The faceting is caused by the modeling, which needs to be modified within Fusion 360 before outputting as a STL.

CC

[Groot689]

First and foremost, thank you all for providing your expertise on using 3D print technology in the construction of RC submarines etc. I am definitely a newbie but recently purchased the Ender 3 Pro V2 and am slowly easing my way up the learning curve. I am really encouraged by the print size RCJetDude on your project but was wondering if you have had any leveling issues or problems with the print not adhering to the base plate. One of my only complaints with this printer is the need for leveling your base plate before every print. Any tips for this rookie? In any event, I am looking forward to tracking your progress and really appreciate all of the tips and constructive advice all of the members have offered thus far.

[SubDude]

When I get done with this thing any facets will be gone. It doesn't require as much sanding as you think. 80 grit works wonders. I use a high fill PU primer. One heavy coat, sand (an easy sanding at that. PU primer sands easier than plastic) and one more reduced coat of primer, wet sand with 400 if needed or run a Scotch Brite pad over it then paint. It works great for me. I am printing it at the scale it was designed at. My first time doing that. I may try printing the next section on a higher resolution in the slicer to see what it does. Currently set on medium. Always learning.

[CC Clarke]

[QUOTE=RCJetDude;n146445]My first full on Fusion 360 project. Took me about 5 days and 2 versions but is now printing very nicely on my Ender 3 Pro using ASA filament. It's my take on a 1/72nd scale Columbia class. Will be 93" long with just over a 7" beam. I sat down and forced myself to learn what I did. At times it was very frustrating but I kept going. Also had some help along the way. I use Simplify 3D for my slicing software. My printer has been bullet proof aside from an issue where the wire inside the insulation of the power cable to the bed heater fatigued and broke. Took me two weeks to figure that one out but it is back up and running full bore. I just bought an Ender 5 Plus and will be bringing it online soon. Much bigger build volume so I could easily do a 1/48th Ohio now if I want but it will first be printing a large Seehund for a buddy of mine.

The Ender 5 is a nice machine, and your current Columbia print looks like a lot of fun. My only suggestion for improvement would be to increase the side count on the hull to minimize the faceting. It looks like you've got around 48 sides @ 3-4 mm thickness; I like to use 120 sides which drastically reduces the amount of post-sanding required. The size of this model would need a lot of laborious sanding!

I finally used some XTC-3D epoxy coating last week and highly recommend it. A couple of very thin coats will completely fill in FDM layer lines, (but isn't going to fix broad, visible faceting.) After that, very light sanding preps the surface for primer.

I've attached a freshly-printed and coated screw for comparison:



I look forward to seeing your finished result!

CC

[CC Clarke]

I have had other companies 3d print some sculptures. The quality of the 3d prints was exceptional, I had no surface or printing waves to sand down. Of course these prints were made by a high end printer some years ago. Now that the quality of printers seem to be much better and the cost lowering, I am thinking of investing in my own 3d printer and was wondering what sort of quality I can expect from say an Elegoo mars Pro 2 for example? I assume if you are making small scale parts I assume there is little to no sanding or finishing of the printed surface.

Just to keep this so people who aren't printer-heavy can follow along better, you're discussing a resin printer, which is a lot different than an FDM printer. Resin printing has pros and cons, but can yield awesome-looking parts at a fraction of the price of the more expensive FDM printers (>$1000.) They require optimal orientation of the parts and placement of the supports for best results. There are a lot of very good YouTube videos of techniques using Chitubox (a common resin slicer) available.

I'm leaning toward a $350 Pfrozen Mini 4K to compliment my FDM printer work at the moment.

CC

[rwtdiver]

My first full on Fusion 360 project. Took me about 5 days and 2 versions but is now printing very nicely on my Ender 3 Pro using ASA filament. It's my take on a 1/72nd scale Columbia class. Will be 93" long with just over a 7" beam. I sat down and forced myself to learn what I did. At times it was very frustrating but I kept going. Also had some help along the way. I use Simplify 3D for my slicing software. My printer has been bullet proof aside from an issue where the wire inside the insulation of the power cable to the bed heater fatigued and broke. Took me two weeks to figure that one out but it is back up and running full bore. I just bought an Ender 5 Plus and will be bringing it online soon. Much bigger build volume so I could easily do a 1/48th Ohio now if I want but it will first be printing a large Seehund for a buddy of mine.

Steve!

Your Ender 3 Pro looks like it really does some great printing. Another big Columbia class boat! I spent $150.00 about 8 years ago on Simplify 3D slicing software, that was the best $150.00 I have ever spent!
Great software.

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[SubDude]

My first full on Fusion 360 project. Took me about 5 days and 2 versions but is now printing very nicely on my Ender 3 Pro using ASA filament. It's my take on a 1/72nd scale Columbia class. Will be 93" long with just over a 7" beam. I sat down and forced myself to learn what I did. At times it was very frustrating but I kept going. Also had some help along the way. I use Simplify 3D for my slicing software. My printer has been bullet proof aside from an issue where the wire inside the insulation of the power cable to the bed heater fatigued and broke. Took me two weeks to figure that one out but it is back up and running full bore. I just bought an Ender 5 Plus and will be bringing it online soon. Much bigger build volume so I could easily do a 1/48th Ohio now if I want but it will first be printing a large Seehund for a buddy of mine.

[Captain Anblasen]

I have had other companies 3d print some sculptures. The quality of the 3d prints was exceptional, I had no surface or printing waves to sand down. Of course these prints were made by a high end printer some years ago. Now that the quality of printers seem to be much better and the cost lowering, I am thinking of investing in my own 3d printer and was wondering what sort of quality I can expect from say an Elegoo mars Pro 2 for example? I assume if you are making small scale parts I assume there is little to no sanding or finishing of the printed surface.

[CC Clarke]

Yes i understand, it is bewildering at first. For the first few weeks I just produced garbage, and I still make loads of mistakes. It's like learning any new skill, start simple. Begin with sketching, then learn how to constrain dimensions, then from a sketch extrude, revolve, sweep and loft into a solid. Then you can apply bevels, chamfers, holes, threads etc.

It gets more advanced once you start getting into complex geometry, where shapes twist and turn over two planes. Once comfortable with solids, start looking at surfaces, which give you more flexibility, then there are also the sculpting interface with T-splines, I'm currently wading my way through that at the moment.

What I like about Fusion is that everything you need (plus some) is in one package. Prior to that, it seemed like you needed to learn three or four pieces of software, or pay a fortune for a package that had far more features than required.

3D Modeling is something I've had a little experience with both as a student and later, instructor, so I'll throw out a little of what I've learned along the way. I was very fortunate to have an experienced instructor who taught modeling methodology and not just tool usage. (Dedicated CAD programs and 3D modeling software are similar, but not the same. This post concerns 3D modeling which is entirely mesh-based.)

I've been creating 3D models professionally for fourteen years and can assure those of you who are into or are contemplating learning 3D modeling, the learning never ends. If someone tells you they're an expert, their either delusional or worse.

There's a big difference between an artist and an artiste. I will always be a student, ready to learn new techniques.

There are multiple methods to achieve the desired form, so there is no one right way to get the end result. There are some methods that are faster than others, depending on one's skill level, so it pays (in time saved) to learn as many methods to get the best results in the least amount of time.

There are multiple techniques of modeling for both hard surface and organic models. (Submarine models are often combinations of hard surface and organic.) Techniques use splines, (excellent for lofting hull lines) box, NURBS, point-to-point, and edge modeling just to name a few. T

The most important thing to have when modeling a complex object is as much reference material as possible. he most accurate modeling method is with blueprints, but sometimes all you're going to have a photos. A good model can easily take months of hard work to produce. Especially where organic shapes are concerned, it isn't enough to create the shape, but smooth poly flow that creates accurate geometry and lends itself well to 3D printing should be the goal. If a model containing a lot of compound curves has insufficient polys, the resulting 3D printed model will contain unsightly faceting requiring a lot of manual effort to hide before painting.

Generally, 3D modeling style is only taught in formal classes. It is very difficult to learn style on one's own unless you're one of those very rare, gifted individuals or have access to a lot of feedback. The majority of modelers are left to try for an accurate shape with varying results.

For simple models and creating holes in bulkheads, this is fine; but if you want to model something with more compound curves, --like a Whiskey Long Bin from scratch, organic modeling techniques are the way to go.

It was interesting to note how many students dropped out of the modeling class I attended at Universal Studios. Out of the 31 that showed up full of enthusiasm on the first day, there were 15 left two weeks later and 12 after three months. I asked the Director if this was a normal attrition rate and he said it was fairly typical. Apparently most of the students didn't expect it would require so much work. And it work it was. For every hour in class, there was at least two hours of homework. Weekends were spent wrestling polys for Monday presentation deadlines.

Luckily, I wasn't there to learn special effects for working in film or TV - I had an engineering job and my company paid my way to add a new capability to our service portfolio. I threw myself into it and learned as much as I could in the six months I spent there, living in a hotel with nothing to do but study.

Once the class was over and I returned to work, the real learning began. Spending 12-15 hours a day for the first year, I was able to double my speed about every three months. Speed and accuracy are the keys to becoming an efficient modeler. It takes a tremendous amount of perseverance and practice to get to the point where you have the confidence to tackle anything.

The tricks that work for me are:

1. Set realistic deadlines.
2. Build one section at a time and stick with it.
3. Save, save, save! There are few things more depressing when modeling that to suffer a crash and have to redo an hour's worth of work. I save my files every three to five minutes religiously.
4. Keep learning new ways to use old tools.
5. Take frequent breaks.
6. Use symmetry and mirroring to reduce the workload whenever possible.
7. Challenge yourself to trying new techniques.

During this holiday where I'm stuck inside, I'm working on a submarine at the moment and have multiple versions, borrowing parts from a master to save time as I modify each version. One is for a static display model and the others will be optimized for 3D printing.

For software. I use Lightwave3D. It was the first commercial software for "regular" folks, introduced 25 years ago on the Amiga. It has been used on numerous award-winning movies and TV shows since it is also an animation program. I have access to plenty of high-end CAD software like SolidWorks and ProE, but can create faster with just as much accuracy using Lightwave. Plus, I can texture, light and animate with a degree of realism that CAD programs can't touch.

I've attached a couple of wire renders from an artist who is much better than I when it comes to sub-D modeling (where the mesh is manipulated like a piece of clay to get smooth, rounded faces with a minimal number of polys.) Notice how the polys (all quads) flow in uniform directions, which blend and contribute to the overall organic shape. STLs use triangles (3-sided polys) which are nothing more than sub-divided quads (four-sided polys.) I model in quads and then turn the mesh into triangles before outputting as an STL for 3D printing.

If you have any modeling questions, chime in, and I'll offer suggestions if possible.