The Future is Here!

[Subculture]

If you're hoping to get things back to the way they were say twenty years ago, when the SC had around thousand members, I would temper expectations.

It's a very different world today, and the younger generations have different ways of consuming media. For starters they chiefly use mobiles rather than computers- that means small screens, and most websites and forums don't work well on mobile platforms, they're too finicky. Compare that with Facebook, which has its own app, and is arguably easier to use on a mobile than a desktop or laptop.

From my own perspective, I've always believed that in this hobby, if you can get a dozen or more talented and motivated people working harmoniously as a team towards a common set of goals, there isn't much that is out of reach. However it's quite difficult to achieve that in practice and keep it stable over the time you need to reach the objectives.

[coryhenry]

I love Monty Python!!

[Rick Teskey]

sorry no soggy toast intended If I was misunderstood.

[Rick Teskey]

A man walks into an office. Man: Good morning, I'd like to have an argument, please. Receptionist: Certainly, sir. Have you been here before? Man: No, this is my first time. Receptionist: I see, well we'll see who's free at the moment. Mr. Bakely's free, but he's a little bit concilliatory. No. Try Mr. Barnhart, room 12. Man: Thank you. He enters room 12. Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT? Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that... Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS! Man: What? A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS STUFFY-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!! M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!! A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse! M: Oh! Oh I see! A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door. M: Oh...Sorry... A: Not at all

[Peter W]

Done! The software is pretty picky lately for some reason.

Bob

Thank you Bob. Think it was after I added a reason for editing ?

Peter

[trout]

Bob, Ed, and I want to see big changes, but we do not want to do this alone. We need your participation. We will be transparent, aggressive, and open to your ideas. Andy, you have brought up great points and I think you will see that happening in the coming years.

An organization can die from a major blow, but it can also bleed to death by a thousand pin pricks. SC has made mistakes, but that is the past. We have slowly and many times behind the scenes tried to patch the areas that were bleeding us to death. A lot of progress has happened, but we are going to move faster and more decisively.

[QuarterMaster]

Historically speaking, people are quick to point out the problems, but few are willing to allocate the time and energy into creating solutions.

I call it little Red Hen syndrome. I'm sure many are familiar with that little tale- who will help me sow the wheat, harvest and mill it, make the bread, bake it- no one. Who will help me eat the bread- everyone.

So a few things that will help in my opinion. I write as an ex-member, so you can take or disregard what I write without any bias.

1. Current membership list. I don't recall one being published in over a decade. Also helpful to know the skill set of members, and whether they'd be willing to offer their time in areas of expertise, either to help fellow members or the group as a whole. That will require members to complete some sort of form/questionnaire. Some may wish to do this, others won't. Carrot- perhaps offer a prize draw for those submitting a fully completed questionnaire, and call the draw once a certain number of members have joined. This would place a small cost on the group, but may improve engagement.

2. A good look at the finances to see how resources can be allocated to improve the appeal of the group to current, past and prospective members. A group needs a bit of cash in reserve, but I don't think it needs $20k plus when things are where they are.

3. Complete rebuild needed of the main website, which looks dull, like you're selling office furniture or something. and not much content. Forum needs to be fully open as exclusivity hasn't worked IMO, and the sections reduced to a bare minimum as many rarely if ever get posted to, and the whole page looks fragmented. Chapter, members only and vendor sections should be merged in with other sections, and every effort made to reduce the bloat in other sections. Think back to the early days of the forum, when there were half a dozen or so sections, all very active.

4. Try and secure vendor discounts for members.

5. If 3d printing is going to help the hobby grow consider creating a simple design that can be printed on an entry level machine e.g. Ender 3, that enables newcomers to get into the water without too much fuss. Something like the X1 sub would be a good candidate, a scale look but excellent shape with large control surfaces, no fussy details and will work well as a dynamic diver.

6. Publish forward looking statements. What the goals are. Anyone who has tried to get anything done will appreciate some of the goals will fall short- I'd say if you can achieve fifty percent of your aims you'd be doing well- but a plan of action is needed if anything is to be done at all.

Finally, you'll be very lucky indeed if you don't make some enemies along the way. It'll only take one or two people to make life difficult, as it takes less effort to foul things up than to put things right. Individuals can get spiteful and unpleasant in ways they wouldn't in their workplace for fear of losing their livelihood. Most will see reason and compromise, but some won't, and they're the tricky ones to handle.

Wait until you see the hit list Bob, Tom and I put together...

You but scratched the surface.

Our goal, and forgive me if I speak out of turn Bob....and please correct.

Is to bring back the SubCommittee as the PREMIER forum for ALL things related to the subject matter. For ALL Submarine Enthusiast's as it once was, not just RC. We also fill it with subject matter experts who may NOT be interested in RC. The place for research to use in conjunction with...

The Nautilus Drydocks, the premier site for RC Submarine enthusiasts.

BOTH can and should exist together in HARMONY working towards each skill skill set.

As a Sub Simulation gamer, pin collector, static modeler, and to gain general research, I pay $$ for advanced access to the SC.

As an RC enthusiast's, I come here for the latest how-to's, gear, tips and ideas.

Am I wrong?

[RCSubGuy]

Andy,


You're firing on all cylinders there, sir. What you've highlighted are all issues that we've identified and would like to work toward in the New Year.

One of the first orders of business will be to create a prioritized list of opportunities, assign timelines and personnel, and bring visibility to the membership. This will drive accountability as well.

I also concur with your statement about enemies. Progress is the nemesis of the status quo, and the status quo has been the organizational mantra for a very very long time. This tells me that most people are very happy with it. We will be shaking up that particular tree, and there are many that are not going to be happy about it (I mean, hey... who likes their coffee spilled in the morning, right!?). Unfortunately, they're going to need to A) fight the process and be grumpy until we're ousted, B) jump in and support us in our efforts, or C) go find another sandbox to play in.


Bob

[Subculture]

Historically speaking, people are quick to point out the problems, but few are willing to allocate the time and energy into creating solutions.

I call it little Red Hen syndrome. I'm sure many are familiar with that little tale- who will help me sow the wheat, harvest and mill it, make the bread, bake it- no one. Who will help me eat the bread- everyone.

So a few things that will help in my opinion. I write as an ex-member, so you can take or disregard what I write without any bias.

1. Current membership list. I don't recall one being published in over a decade. Also helpful to know the skill set of members, and whether they'd be willing to offer their time in areas of expertise, either to help fellow members or the group as a whole. That will require members to complete some sort of form/questionnaire. Some may wish to do this, others won't. Carrot- perhaps offer a prize draw for those submitting a fully completed questionnaire, and call the draw once a certain number of members have joined. This would place a small cost on the group, but may improve engagement.

2. A good look at the finances to see how resources can be allocated to improve the appeal of the group to current, past and prospective members. A group needs a bit of cash in reserve, but I don't think it needs $20k plus when things are where they are.

3. Complete rebuild needed of the main website, which looks dull, like you're selling office furniture or something. and not much content. Forum needs to be fully open as exclusivity hasn't worked IMO, and the sections reduced to a bare minimum as many rarely if ever get posted to, and the whole page looks fragmented. Chapter, members only and vendor sections should be merged in with other sections, and every effort made to reduce the bloat in other sections. Think back to the early days of the forum, when there were half a dozen or so sections, all very active.

4. Try and secure vendor discounts for members.

5. If 3d printing is going to help the hobby grow consider creating a simple design that can be printed on an entry level machine e.g. Ender 3, that enables newcomers to get into the water without too much fuss. Something like the X1 sub would be a good candidate, a scale look but excellent shape with large control surfaces, no fussy details and will work well as a dynamic diver.

6. Publish forward looking statements. What the goals are. Anyone who has tried to get anything done will appreciate some of the goals will fall short- I'd say if you can achieve fifty percent of your aims you'd be doing well- but a plan of action is needed if anything is to be done at all.

Finally, you'll be very lucky indeed if you don't make some enemies along the way. It'll only take one or two people to make life difficult, as it takes less effort to foul things up than to put things right. Individuals can get spiteful and unpleasant in ways they wouldn't in their workplace for fear of losing their livelihood. Most will see reason and compromise, but some won't, and they're the tricky ones to handle.

[RCSubGuy]

Can someone approve my other post here ?

Done! The software is pretty picky lately for some reason.

Bob

[Peter W]

Can someone approve my other post here ?

[CC Clarke]

It’s really enjoyable to cogitate on the many views put forth in this thread. Thanks for responding and I hope more reading along will offer feedback.

While craftsmanship is still at a premium in this country, DIY hobbies don’t seem to have the same impact as they once did – especially when I was a kid. Most of my friends built plastic models, and at some point, (usually near the beginning of July) we began blowing them up, and building new ones. I learned how to heed instructions, problem solve, paint a little and most of all – finish with as many fingers as I started with.

I appreciate the skilled artisans who share their knowledge and methodology as much as anyone. 3D printing is just another tool, but one I believe can make the hobby more accessible to a wider audience.

What’s the biggest difference between someone who prints (or buys) a 3D printed hull vs acquiring a hand-made, GRP hull? For the most part, price.
Both must be assembled, prepped, painted, made ready for a WTC, and tested. The end result is the same: another boat underway, which is free advertising for the hobby when run in public. More hulls punching holes in the water have the potential to draw more participants. The larger the hobby, the more products are needed to support it, to the betterment of all. There’s plenty of work available for the craftsman and the computer geeks, but how many hulls each month can one highly skilled and dedicated person lovingly produce in a workshop? I would wager not enough to meet the demand – at any price.

Again, there are a limited number of deep-pocketed customers at that price point. High quality, well-designed 3D printed hulls can be sold as printable files or physical objects, since 3D printing is still growing, but schools are increasingly pushing it as a STEM subject, and young people are becoming more interested since they can design and make things in a short period of time. That’s another prime segment of the target audience to grow the hobby with. As a Science Fair project, I would have definitely been interested were it available at the time.

As an engineer, I’m a cradle-to-grave kind of guy. I like everything from the conceptual to design phase as much as the testing and production aspects. It’s all good. Some jobs take months, others years, and some die untimely deaths, victims of overconfidence or obsolescence due to schedule slips or skyrocketing costs.

3D printing has become an indispensable tool to our workflow. Without the expense and wait time associated with machining, it’s pretty handy to be able to place a printed prototype on a bench and have the team throw rocks at it. The resulting feedback ensures we efficiently design-to-build, taking into account interferences for wiring and cabling, mechanical interfaces, and the most important question of all – Have we overlooked anything?
3D CAD models are great to review on screen, spinning them on an axis, but when you can physically hold a complex combination of parts that were designed last week, printed at a cost of <$50, it’s a huge leap from what we were doing ten, even twenty years ago when expensive stereo lithography was all the rage with resin printing. And it will only continue to increase in popularity.

The Chinese were mentioned as siphoning away our manufacturing:

Presently, they don’t innovate – they imitate. Their last big contribution to the world was gunpowder. That’s about to change. I’m okay with competition, it keeps innovation moving forward. That genie is out of the bottle and there’s no turning back. It’s all about numbers, and they have more citizens to placate.

The last time I checked, there were still fifty-plus year-old American footprints on the moon, but the pace of innovation that fueled that remains just as active today due hard-working entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, and people with imagination and foresight to see what most of us can’t.
We have beaucoup talented engineers creating the future right now – are we diminished because we don’t create apparel like we once did? Low wage, repetitive manufacturing spreads though the world, creating new economies and bringing prosperity to millions. Our economy has an insatiable appetite for an educated workforce who work harder than any other. Our productivity is the envy of the world. We work hard and play harder. Technology-wise, I’ve seen no slacking off during my lifetime. Competition drives us to become more creative and efficient.

But I digress. Back on point. . .

Producing a well-designed, 3D submarine model is not a modest undertaking. 3D Printing one pretty much is. Assembling, painting and acquiring the know-how to troubleshoot and repair an operational boat is what links and bonds all of us together, regardless of the origins of the hull. On that, I think most are inclined to agree. People gravitate toward like-minded people.

An oft-repeated question we would hear (or ask) on submarines was, “What drew you to this?” The answers were amazingly varied, yet similar. But that’s a question for another thread.

Promote the hobby, share the tribal knowledge, and let the good times roll. Those who have done this far longer and better than I can best be repaid by following their unselfish examples.

CC

Dive deep. Fear nothing.

[rwtdiver]

Right on Bob!! I have been right with you from the beginning! The Gotland from Thingiverse!! Keep those great 3D files coming

[RCSubGuy]

Foreword: Its been a long day. I'm home on the couch plowing through customer emails and I have a glass of whiskey and I haven't eaten in 10 hours. Be warned!

Wow... what a fascinating thread! I'm looking forward to some great insights, and more importantly, SUGGESTIONS from the assembled crowd. Historically speaking, people are quick to point out the problems, but few are willing to allocate the time and energy into creating solutions.

Okay, let's set the stage here...

Historically speaking, the SubCommittee has been at the forefront of the RC sub game here in North America, if not the world. Over time, this status has changed to the point where, as some others have pointed out, it has not changed with the times, membership has stagnated and the hobby as a whole has begun somewhat of a stall. Over time, due to personality conflicts and, let's be honest here, stupid internal politics, the North American hobby has been fragmented, each group separating off to play in their own sandbox. We see that in the SubCommittee, the SubDriver forums, SubPirates, and others.

I would like to say that due to an engaging vision, force of personality and strong message of change, myself, Ed Tordahl and Tom Chalfant have been elected to helm the SubCommittee beginning in 2021. The reality of the situation is that we had no one run against us. Were were literally the only candidates. That is sad, on so many levels.

What we see, what we envision, and what we dream of, is a unified front against the stagnation of RC submarines. Let's be honest, RC subs are awesome. No one can argue the point. There are challenges. There are barriers, but they are something that can be overcome. What I worry more about is the decades of bad blood and petty rivalries killing the hobby from the inside. We have enough problems to deal with without creating new ones ourselves.

Once we hit the ground running in January, we plan on making leadership of the SubCommittee (and, by default, the SubDriver community) a fully transparent affair. Everyone will be invited to online video discussions that the exec team will have. No, you may not have a voice at the meeting (my god, can you imagine the anarchy!), but you'll have visibility to what we're doing, what we're not doing, and what the vision is. There will be forums for comments and suggestions. Voices will be heard and, more importantly, action will be taken.

I have a very vested interest in this little world we play in. It's my only source of income. My passion. My living. I consider many of you true friends, brothers in the quest to create that which most cannot. The Elite, but an elite that quests for new blood, one that does not push it away for the sake of elitism.

Yes, the art, the TRUE art of hand-crafting is dying a swift and terrible death. Let's be brutally honest here... so did knapping obsidian for knives and starting fires with flint and steel. I'm not taking ANYTHING away from that art form, don't get me wrong. I have the utmost respect for it. The writing is on the wall, however. The days of rubber and resin are nearing an end. Enter the age of the computer, the printer, and the digital craftsman. The kings of old are dead. Long live the kings!

Let's get this hobby with the times. Let's leverage social media, video and the devil spawn computer! Let's get Generation X off their collective asses and building things, but in a way that they can relate to. Let's spam the market with a hundred submarine designs that can be printed at home in a week. Let's get kids excited about this!

We have nothing but opportunity here. I'm excited to be a part of it.


Bob

[QuarterMaster]

Editor’s Note: This is just my personal observation while lurking for several years: The subcommittee is static, and will become a virtual yawn-fest without positive change from new members. This site is dynamic and bursting with optimism. Every new post that generates buzz confirms it.

CC

If you've truly been lurking, you know this is old news.

The SC has been stagnant since early 2k. ruled by a select group living on a dinosaur of a publication.

Don't believe me, ask the former owners of Life Magazine.

Who wants information that's 3 months old? I can get it NOW...for FREE.

Sell that to newcomers. (Kinda like selling them 75Mhz radios, but I won't stir that pot ...again)

Evolve or perish, evolution is real. Life is impermanence.

Wasn't Bob Martin, it's the internet, YouTube etc. Bob did the smart thing and took advantage of it.

Not sure if it's general knowledge, but a new team is running unopposed, I won't name names, but the future of the Subcommittee, and it's publication, is about to have a "come to Jesus" meeting.

It may be very exciting, or bad, but it will change.

It's unsustainable now and time will prove that, people just don't or refuse to understand that.