The Future is Here!

[trout]

Maybe I don't fit in.

Oh, you fit in fine. I can say this because I am very much a loaner and do not fit in well, but in this hobby I have found some real friends and acceptance.
I am glad you are here.

[TuptubBuilder]

Thank you, that was very well said.

[Sinksalot]

Everybody can have fun with RC subs. You don't have to fit in, everyone does stuff differently. Some people build subs, some people buy built subs. Any radio the works for a sub from 3 channel to 12 channels, old to new is fine. Whats most important is your desire and what you think your sub should be and look like. From a master sub builder to a person just starting. All subs builds are great because you have a dream to build something that will make you happy.

[TuptubBuilder]

I have two 4 ch Futaba 27 MHz transmitters and three receivers. I have used an Arduino Uno as a "man-in-the-middle" to provide features like fail safe and low battery. I don't mind a challenge but it's just one more distraction. Scrounging for antique radio sets doesn't fit with my sense of forward thinking. This conversation is forcing me to reassess my expectations. Maybe I don't fit in.

[Sinksalot]

Radio is a small issue, but not much IMO. The marine hobby has been in decline since the 1980's. Model subs were always niche, but the hobby has aged- most model submariners are drawing their pensions now. I'm not ageist in the least, but it does change the dynamic quite a bit.

Twenty to thirty years ago, they were thirty and forty somethings, still relatively young men. It was evident back then however that were very few teenagers or twenty somethings were participating in the hobby.

If you wind back earlier in this thread I outline where I think the issues are, it isn't the gear that's the problem.

People always find a way to get sub used or new radios, Over the last year I wanted a new radio and I looked around the world and got myself a new 75mhz radio. However once other people saw my new set, I had people email and msg me if I could get them a them a new 9 and 8 channel 75mhz sets. I was able to get 40 new 75mhz sets together. Before anyone asks, 39 out of 40 are gone. I will not be getting more do to the cost of the radios, modules, receivers and shipping from all the different countrys. Also because finding new real 75mhz stuff is hard as hell.

So just look around, not just in the US.

[cheapsub]

Agree with Subculture.

This is a get your hands dirty hobby. Used to be RC airplane in the old days, Rc boat too. Now just have a deep pockets, have any thing ship to your house. My opinion only.
Bob managed to find new old stock radio system.

I think I got the synthesized Novak module working with a ER9X transmitter, $50 transmitter + $50 module add elbow grease get you self a nice over kill 27, 75 MHz FM transmitter.
I even get JR ,GWS receiver to works. But Running low on dual conversion crystal, still some in evil bay.
most fly boys will think I am crazy.

I another thing people always mix up with RC scale model submarine with ROV. And Goes wireless in open sea. This drive me up the wall.

[Subculture]

Radio is a small issue, but not much IMO. The marine hobby has been in decline since the 1980's. Model subs were always niche, but the hobby has aged- most model submariners are drawing their pensions now. I'm not ageist in the least, but it does change the dynamic quite a bit.

Twenty to thirty years ago, they were thirty and forty somethings, still relatively young men. It was evident back then however that were very few teenagers or twenty somethings were participating in the hobby.

If you wind back earlier in this thread I outline where I think the issues are, it isn't the gear that's the problem.

[TuptubBuilder]

What is the future of r/c subs? I think the biggest issue is the radio itself. What about conceding to the inevitable and adapt and embrace the 2.4 GHz band. Maybe utilizing today’s open source microprocessors and design a semi-autonomous control scheme with periodic surfacing for command updates? I envy the Europeans who don’t have this issue with their 40 MHz radios. I for one am just trying to make a modest investment of time and money to see if I really like this hobby. I will never be a member of the “Elite” but would be happy being a contributing enthusiast.

[Subculture]

3d printing is just a tool. it's regarded as another technique in manufacturing that 'compliments' existing methods rather than usurping them.

With regards to meetings and engaging with other competent modellers, I can't really comment for the USA, it's a huge country compared to my own, and although we speak a common language, I think we're very different culturally. What i did some years back was to get something going at a local level and then it slowly built it up over three or four years to something pretty decent. Sadly one or two pillocks old and ugly enough to know better decided to make themselves a pain in the arse, so i took a break and let things ride for a while. Subsequently one or two came forward and organised events in their locales, and there are now three or four events organised through the year.

I think the most important thing is to know who is out there, engage with them by asking them what they'd like to do, propose something and see where it leads. It may run to a dead end, or it may lead to something meaningful, or something in between that needs a few years to grow.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

It’s really enjoyable to cogitate on the many views put forth in this thread. Thanks for responding and I hope more reading along will offer feedback.

While craftsmanship is still at a premium in this country, DIY hobbies don’t seem to have the same impact as they once did – especially when I was a kid. Most of my friends built plastic models, and at some point, (usually near the beginning of July) we began blowing them up, and building new ones. I learned how to heed instructions, problem solve, paint a little and most of all – finish with as many fingers as I started with.

I appreciate the skilled artisans who share their knowledge and methodology as much as anyone. 3D printing is just another tool, but one I believe can make the hobby more accessible to a wider audience.

What’s the biggest difference between someone who prints (or buys) a 3D printed hull vs acquiring a hand-made, GRP hull? For the most part, price.
Both must be assembled, prepped, painted, made ready for a WTC, and tested. The end result is the same: another boat underway, which is free advertising for the hobby when run in public. More hulls punching holes in the water have the potential to draw more participants. The larger the hobby, the more products are needed to support it, to the betterment of all. There’s plenty of work available for the craftsman and the computer geeks, but how many hulls each month can one highly skilled and dedicated person lovingly produce in a workshop? I would wager not enough to meet the demand – at any price.

Again, there are a limited number of deep-pocketed customers at that price point. High quality, well-designed 3D printed hulls can be sold as printable files or physical objects, since 3D printing is still growing, but schools are increasingly pushing it as a STEM subject, and young people are becoming more interested since they can design and make things in a short period of time. That’s another prime segment of the target audience to grow the hobby with. As a Science Fair project, I would have definitely been interested were it available at the time.

As an engineer, I’m a cradle-to-grave kind of guy. I like everything from the conceptual to design phase as much as the testing and production aspects. It’s all good. Some jobs take months, others years, and some die untimely deaths, victims of overconfidence or obsolescence due to schedule slips or skyrocketing costs.

3D printing has become an indispensable tool to our workflow. Without the expense and wait time associated with machining, it’s pretty handy to be able to place a printed prototype on a bench and have the team throw rocks at it. The resulting feedback ensures we efficiently design-to-build, taking into account interferences for wiring and cabling, mechanical interfaces, and the most important question of all – Have we overlooked anything?
3D CAD models are great to review on screen, spinning them on an axis, but when you can physically hold a complex combination of parts that were designed last week, printed at a cost of <$50, it’s a huge leap from what we were doing ten, even twenty years ago when expensive stereo lithography was all the rage with resin printing. And it will only continue to increase in popularity.

The Chinese were mentioned as siphoning away our manufacturing:

Presently, they don’t innovate – they imitate. Their last big contribution to the world was gunpowder. That’s about to change. I’m okay with competition, it keeps innovation moving forward. That genie is out of the bottle and there’s no turning back. It’s all about numbers, and they have more citizens to placate.

The last time I checked, there were still fifty-plus year-old American footprints on the moon, but the pace of innovation that fueled that remains just as active today due hard-working entrepreneurs, venture capitalists, and people with imagination and foresight to see what most of us can’t.
We have beaucoup talented engineers creating the future right now – are we diminished because we don’t create apparel like we once did? Low wage, repetitive manufacturing spreads though the world, creating new economies and bringing prosperity to millions. Our economy has an insatiable appetite for an educated workforce who work harder than any other. Our productivity is the envy of the world. We work hard and play harder. Technology-wise, I’ve seen no slacking off during my lifetime. Competition drives us to become more creative and efficient.

But I digress. Back on point. . .

Producing a well-designed, 3D submarine model is not a modest undertaking. 3D Printing one pretty much is. Assembling, painting and acquiring the know-how to troubleshoot and repair an operational boat is what links and bonds all of us together, regardless of the origins of the hull. On that, I think most are inclined to agree. People gravitate toward like-minded people.

An oft-repeated question we would hear (or ask) on submarines was, “What drew you to this?” The answers were amazingly varied, yet similar. But that’s a question for another thread.

Promote the hobby, share the tribal knowledge, and let the good times roll. Those who have done this far longer and better than I can best be repaid by following their unselfish examples.

CC

Dive deep. Fear nothing.

When price (one of the moderating elements that separates the men from the boys) is low -- product delivered or home-grown in an almost RTR condition -- you increase, short term, the number of boats at the lake. OK on the face of it.

To some degree, when these technical know-nothings encounter a problem THEY CAN'T fix, they quit; not having the skill, patience, nor facilities to resolve the problem. Be that problem structure, electrical, electronic, or trimming. Self correcting, they never make it to the lake. But too many of them get as far as bringing their sub-standard work (and knowledge) to the lake.

This is how I see things shaping up: We're charging head-long into the same thing that is killing r/c model aircraft flying (yes, drones have also drawn blood at the local and Federal levels) -- idiots with Mexican and Chinese built airframes who beg of the club elite to outfit, break-in, trim out and school them on the essentials of model aircraft flying. The result: a flight-line heavy in dangerous flyers. No wonder we all hide behind fences --in some cases mandated by law and what's left of the AMA. THERE WAS NO LEARNING CURVE!

If you're not invested in a thing, that thing means little to you. A quitters paradise.

I attend regattas to run my boats, not spend most of my time at some Newb's table fixing his stuff! I would rather be at a small gathering of competent drivers than attending a big regatta peopled by those who beg me for assistance so they can get THEIR boat back into the water.

We should be culling the herd, not flooding the shore line with idiot, needy drivers.

A printer does not a model-builder make. The Krell learned that one the hard way.

David

[QuarterMaster]

Each medium has it's strengths and weaknesses.

That is the FINEST piece of advice I've seen yet. It applies to ALL facets of this hobby and EVERYTING it touches.

There is NO one way.

There is NO silver bullet.

The solution only fits the application.

[QuarterMaster]

A man walks into an office. Man: Good morning, I'd like to have an argument, please. Receptionist: Certainly, sir. Have you been here before? Man: No, this is my first time. Receptionist: I see, well we'll see who's free at the moment. Mr. Bakely's free, but he's a little bit concilliatory. No. Try Mr. Barnhart, room 12. Man: Thank you. He enters room 12. Angry man: WHADDAYOU WANT? Man: Well, Well, I was told outside that... Angry man: DON'T GIVE ME THAT, YOU SNOTTY-FACED HEAP OF PARROT DROPPINGS! Man: What? A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS STUFFY-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!! M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!! A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse! M: Oh! Oh I see! A: Aha! No, you want room 12A, next door. M: Oh...Sorry... A: Not at all

Rick done got into Grampa's "Glaucoma" brownies....again.

[SubDude]

Do you print in an enclosure for ASA?

Yes. Running at 40C. Also using a glass build surface with Magigoo instead of the stock magnetic one. I usually use a good sized brim on the base of the part. Warping is minimal if any. Once finished and cooled, the part separates easily from the bed. My Hunley is printed completely with it.
Seeing Bob's is making me really want to get back on it.

[coryhenry]

I am currently printing with ASA on an Ender 3 Pro and getting such good results that I will likely not be going back to PLA+ any time soon. I have not been involved with the SC to date but look forward to what 2021 will bring under the guidance of Bob, Ed and Tom. They have my full support.

Do you print in an enclosure for ASA?

[SubDude]

My youngest son driving my Nautilus at Subfest...


and then skipper of his first sub. The Thunder Tiger Neptune he won. A fantastic underrated RTR sub.


It is because of a 3D printed Redoutable that we are involved with RC subs. I love my 3D printed hulls. They keep getting better as I try different materials and finishing methods. In addition to the Redoutable I also have a 1/72 LA and a 1/7th Hunley as well as parts of my 1/76th Ohio that are printed and I look forward to many more. My GRP boats are special and they have their place in my growing fleet but I prefer to push the envelopes of 3D. Each medium has it's strengths and weaknesses. I am currently printing with ASA on an Ender 3 Pro and getting such good results that I will likely not be going back to PLA+ any time soon. I have not been involved with the SC to date but look forward to what 2021 will bring under the guidance of Bob, Ed and Tom. They have my full support.