Need some help with Arkmodel 1/48 Type VII

[Subculture]

Here's another. About 20" long, dynamic diving and inexpensive. Pre printed parts are available if you cannot print your own.

https://www.tauchrobotershop.de/bausatz-tiburoncito/

There are also several good designs on thingiverse, free of charge, which can be uploaded to a printing bureau if you lack a personal 3d printer. Stick to the smaller models, and the costs can be quite reasonable.

[tifosi12]

I was actually thinking of what Maximus-Modellbau or RC Submarine Shipyard offer for Trumpeter models with the accommodation of a 6 ch 2.4 GHz receiver

Just noticed that you mentioned in your original definition the term "bath tub sized". That's actually a very good point. Those among us who don't have a pool (raising my hand) or nearby pond (raising my hand again) need some way to get the trim right. Since I also don't have a tub I bought a HUGE plastic container, which is just about 48" inches long. That's good enough for beginner boats. It won't fit the 1/48 Arkmodel but that's on me, I should have measured before.

BTW: I wouldn't focus much on the 2.4 GHz requirement. There are plenty of 70 MHz radios around. I have a couple of VEX transmitters and half a dozen receivers, so I'm good for some years to come. You can find them easily on German eBay and then of course your boat can actually fully submerge.

[TuptubBuilder]

I was actually thinking of what Maximus-Modellbau or RC Submarine Shipyard offer for Trumpeter models with the accommodation of a 6 ch 2.4 GHz receiver

[redboat219]

I would be willing to be part of a group that develops a “park flyer” design for newbies. A “bare bones”, bath tub sized, 2.4 GHz boat that doesn’t break the bank or require a machine shop / 3D printer to build.

Something like a dynamic diver with bow planes and rudder only.

[Subculture]

I would be willing to be part of a group that develops a “park flyer” design for newbies. A “bare bones”, bath tub sized, 2.4 GHz boat that doesn’t break the bank or require a machine shop / 3D printer to build.

£255, just add radio (any frequency you like, as long as it's legal) and batteries. Static diving too. If you can't get one of these going, find another hobby.

http://www.rcsubs.co.uk/aquabat

[tifosi12]

Excellent. Your credentials are extensive and will serve you well. Send me pictures of the 1/72 Type-7 rudder mechanism -- maybe we can work out the rudder throw problem and get that boat into running shape for you.

Since I retired from the SD business Bob is working his best to finalize his own version and will only put those up for sale once he's confident he has a reasonably priced, well working product -- as his standard of business demands. I'm sure one of his first SD's will be a two-shaft version sized for that beautiful bigger Type-7 kit.


But that's water under the bridge -- after clobbering three expensive hull kits you've likely soured on that project. However, that SD will find application in the soon to be released 1/96 STURGEON GRP kit Bob will be selling mid-year. May I recommend that to you?

You want a running boat by regatta time. Which will it be, sir?

David

Actually after my first attempt with the XXIII I built a rig even you'd been proud of. Much bigger installation than yours actually (that was before lumber prices went sky high) and a Dremel tool in a similar installation. Problem was that the hull of the boat is so think, it starts to flex and warp once the Dremel cutter puts pressure on it. Then the cut is no longer a perfect line. My other issue was that the little plastic sticks you made for the fittings kit didn't stick to the boat. I used a gazillion ton of Krazy glue and Epoxy and made them stick somewhat but that was still no clean way to mount the top part. That said your other parts from the fittings kit were excellent, I got the dive planes and the prop to work just fine but could never cleanly close that hull. So yes, that's an abandoned mine at this point.

So I'm using your Caswell WTC for Ota's 1/12 Seehund. Fingers crossed. I'm in the honeymoon phase of a new sub project. Haven't reached the 7th year itch yet.

As for your kind offer regarding the 1/72 Type VII. Yes, I'd love to get some input from you for that. My feeling is that its a bit of a lost case at this point. I think I drilled too big of a hole for one of the rudder anchors and that's why it is unstable. And honestly once I get the 1/48 Type VII to run, my interest in the smaller boat will likely be eclipsed. It was my first boat and I learned a ton. I don't even know whether I'd be willing to take it as is to Carmel. People would probably just laugh at me and it.

[tifosi12]

[FONT=Calibri]I would like to humbly add my two cents as a newbie who has no working boats. Yes the Arkmodel WTC does not work “as is”. And even though the design is based on never opening the WTC and the piston tank is a horrible copy of the Engel model I give Arkmodel an “A” for effort.

Now that explains a lot. I had an Engel WTC before and it was a ridiculous mess to assemble. Needless to say I failed pretty much right away.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I've been building R/C planes, tanks, ships and was big into High Power Rocketry, where I learned a good deal about manufacturing and electronics. My understanding is fairly good, where I'm weak at is fabrication like you are doing with your tools etc. So in essence I can follow directions and assemble a kit by the book but I couldn't scratch build the parts for it. At least with 3D printing I have now a bit of a break in that.

My first project was a 1/72 Type VII Revell conversion using your fittings kit. That almost worked: The sub is working except for taking left turns where the rudder is more flapping in the breeze than anything (oddly enough right turns work fine). Then I tried the XXIII type using your Caswell WTC. Looked all good but for the life of me I couldn't get the cut of the upper hall straight. Tried it three times and thus successfully destroyed three perfectly fine kits. So the Arkmodel Type VII is a good choice as it is a by the numbers build. Except for this darn WTC. I didn't know that the thing required assembly. I had one from Engel before and that was a disaster as well.

So I do think I know what I can and cannot do. Given a nice WTC from you or Bob I'm sure I could bring the Arkmodel to a successful end.

In regards to regrouping: No worries, your Caswell WTC is already waiting for a new project where I 3D print the boat. Not trivial but has a higher chance of success than trying to mod an existing plastic kit. As long as I have something working for Carmel I'm fine. Few months left to go.

What really ticks me off about this hobby is what you mentioned: The many bad products out there. You don't get that when you build a tank, racecar, plane, ship. Those kits are all straight forward for the most part whereas with subs the good kits are the exception. Sucks. Somebody should fill that niche. We don't need a RTR sub but something that doesn't need a mechanics and engineering degree in the assembly.

PS: We "met" on Bob's dive tribe. So I'm not scared by your tough sailor's talk. :) But thanks for taking the time to help a newbie.

Excellent. Your credentials are extensive and will serve you well. Send me pictures of the 1/72 Type-7 rudder mechanism -- maybe we can work out the rudder throw problem and get that boat into running shape for you.

Since I retired from the SD business Bob is working his best to finalize his own version and will only put those up for sale once he's confident he has a reasonably priced, well working product -- as his standard of business demands. I'm sure one of his first SD's will be a two-shaft version sized for that beautiful bigger Type-7 kit.

Here's how you should have cut that break between the Type-23 hull halves:











But that's water under the bridge -- after clobbering three expensive hull kits you've likely soured on that project. However, that SD will find application in the soon to be released 1/96 STURGEON GRP kit Bob will be selling mid-year. May I recommend that to you?

You want a running boat by regatta time. Which will it be, sir?

David

[tifosi12]

Still in a fetal position crying over spilled milk. Nah. I will use the internals aka electronics of the Arkmodel WTC for some other project.

Already moved on to a new project where I'll be putting Dave's Caswell WTC with single drive to good use. Bought a new model from Ota in Czech Republic and my 3D printer is now busy for the next 2 weeks printing it. With some luck I should have something ready for Carmel, which is really the goal of this year.

As for the Arkmodel type VII: I'll have to wait until Bob finally releases his new WTCs. Timing wise that's not gonna work for IN but so be it. Sounds more like a next winter project.

On that note and since you guys seem to call a spade a spade: What's the verdict on these WTCs from the UK

http://www.rcsubs.co.uk/our-products

They look very good to me and there is one that claims to fit the Arkmodel Type VII. Unfortunately they don't give any dimensions and it also lacks a forward servo for the front dive planes (yes I know a real man like Dave just builds an around the corner all the way forward contraption controlled by the rear dive plane servo, but I'm not a real man but busy cooing with my Iguana).
Regardless, any comments on these WTCs? Short of having something from Bob they look pretty good to me.

[TuptubBuilder]

I would like to humbly add my two cents as a newbie who has no working boats. Yes the Arkmodel WTC does not work “as is”. And even though the design is based on never opening the WTC and the piston tank is a horrible copy of the Engel model I give Arkmodel an “A” for effort. The kit just exemplifies the difficulties and challenges that this hobby presents. I would be willing to be part of a group that develops a “park flyer” design for newbies. A “bare bones”, bath tub sized, 2.4 GHz boat that doesn’t break the bank or require a machine shop / 3D printer to build.

[RCSubGuy]

[WARNING! - the following is a pre-coffee, unedited, early AM response, so apologies if I'm less amiable than usual. No offense intended]

Re: Arkmodel cylinders:

Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Since we're mildly criticizing, the community is here to help, and that includes advice on what to get and why. A quick question to the forum, on the DiveTribe that you're a member of, or to me directly would have netted you the right answer up front and saved you time, money and hassles. We have resources to help people in this crazy, frustrating hobby. Use them!

Re: Hobby Frustrations:

What really ticks me off about this hobby is what you mentioned: The many bad products out there. You don't get that when you build a tank, racecar, plane, ship. Those kits are all straight forward for the most part whereas with subs the good kits are the exception. Sucks. Somebody should fill that niche. We don't need a RTR sub but something that doesn't need a mechanics and engineering degree in the assembly.

This is not a hobby for the timid, the untalented or the inexperienced. Many, including myself, consider this a hobby for the elite. That's not pride or snobbishness, it's a simple statement of fact. Part of the reason for the exclusivity is the difficulty of building these things and the lack of information and resources. I agree with that. But, don't blame the few vendors who are trying to keep this hobby afloat (or patrolling at depth, as the case may be). The issue is that the hobby is so darned small. We're talking, at most, a few thousand people in the entire world with working boats. The superb and easy to assemble tank, plane and car kits you mentioned earlier are the result of decades of R&D and hundreds of thousands of products supported by hundreds of vendors worldwide. How many vendors support subs? I bet you could count them on your fingers and have a lot of digits left over.

I agree that a simple and easy to assemble kit is a must, and I and a few others are currently working on project to bring this into reality. No, I don't have an ETA. I won't commit to one for exactly the reason that you highlighted above. Things happen. Dates get pushed back. Potential customers get mad.

Re: "Mild criticism"

I googled the videos online but since Bob Martin put in his own WTC they won't really help me in this case and quite frankly I would have ordered a WTC from him if they were available, but no (and yes, that's a mild criticism to the shifting release date).

I've always tried to be forthcoming with my efforts to put a new cylinder to market, my progress, or my lack thereof. I've always been up front about the challenges with workload at the shop and my struggles with implementing a new cylinder design. I'm sorry that the timeline didn't fit into your schedule. I'm doing the best I can. Bear in mind that everything that is put out there is shoehorned in between customer builds, R&D, advertising, website updates, accounting, inventory ordering and control, packing and shipping. It's just me and one other guy.

All I can say is that the wait will be worth it.


Bob

[Monahan Steam Models]

David said what I wanted say. The Arkmodel WTC is a pile of ****. Move on and cut your losses. Sure you can make custard out of cow **** but why?

Once you’re done cooing your certified spirt animal in your safe place, take the man’s offer to to help you if you really want to learn from the best.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

And Dave: Thanks for the last comment about the screaming pile. That was helpful as it made the departure with it much easier. I just wish I had known that before sinking all the $ into it. Oh well.

You still wana play?

Or do you need to cower in a designated 'safe-place' (check your local Collage) as you stroke a certified dog/cat/iguana/miniature pony/scorpion/duck/snake service-animal as you make cooing sounds to it for a day or two?

Whistle me up when you're ready.

[tifosi12]

And Dave: Thanks for the last comment about the screaming pile. That was helpful as it made the departure with it much easier. I just wish I had known that before sinking all the $ into it. Oh well.

[tifosi12]

No. Sadly, your experience is typical. MOST guys who venture into this form of r/c vehicle activity soon find themselves in a wilderness of bad advice, poor product availability, and no experts next-door to guide you through a successful completion of a project. Welcome to r/c submarining, pal! This remains, pretty much (Bob is trying to change this), an activity for loan-wolfs.

What's your history? What kind of r/c vehicles did you successfully operate before getting into this game? Is this your first attempt at r/c submarining? What's your skill level with adhesives, hand-tools, soldering, and understanding of basic physics, electricity, and materials characteristics.

Tell me these things and I can give you a steer towards a project you can handle and see through to a successful conclusion.

Take a few breaths. Re-group. And try again, under my wing as I bodily drag you screaming and blubbering into the hobby. You don't need advice as much as a useful, informed, kick in the ass.

The other posters -- who have been attempting to help you along -- were too kind. They told you nicely. I'll give it to you straight: That 1/48 Type-7 internals kit is a screaming pile of ****.

You chose poorly. https://youtu.be/Ubw5N8iVDHI

David
The Horrible

I've been building R/C planes, tanks, ships and was big into High Power Rocketry, where I learned a good deal about manufacturing and electronics. My understanding is fairly good, where I'm weak at is fabrication like you are doing with your tools etc. So in essence I can follow directions and assemble a kit by the book but I couldn't scratch build the parts for it. At least with 3D printing I have now a bit of a break in that.

My first project was a 1/72 Type VII Revell conversion using your fittings kit. That almost worked: The sub is working except for taking left turns where the rudder is more flapping in the breeze than anything (oddly enough right turns work fine). Then I tried the XXIII type using your Caswell WTC. Looked all good but for the life of me I couldn't get the cut of the upper hall straight. Tried it three times and thus successfully destroyed three perfectly fine kits. So the Arkmodel Type VII is a good choice as it is a by the numbers build. Except for this darn WTC. I didn't know that the thing required assembly. I had one from Engel before and that was a disaster as well.

So I do think I know what I can and cannot do. Given a nice WTC from you or Bob I'm sure I could bring the Arkmodel to a successful end.

In regards to regrouping: No worries, your Caswell WTC is already waiting for a new project where I 3D print the boat. Not trivial but has a higher chance of success than trying to mod an existing plastic kit. As long as I have something working for Carmel I'm fine. Few months left to go.

What really ticks me off about this hobby is what you mentioned: The many bad products out there. You don't get that when you build a tank, racecar, plane, ship. Those kits are all straight forward for the most part whereas with subs the good kits are the exception. Sucks. Somebody should fill that niche. We don't need a RTR sub but something that doesn't need a mechanics and engineering degree in the assembly.

PS: We "met" on Bob's dive tribe. So I'm not scared by your tough sailor's talk. :) But thanks for taking the time to help a newbie.