Albacore continued

[greenman407]

Dave, You asked for the dimmensions of my D&E 3" WTC. Now, what does your evil mind contemplate???

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

World domination; supression of all non-aligned thinking; re-direction of all females activity to my every want ... the usual stuff, Mark.

Oh, you mean the 3" WTC.

Sorry.

I'm re-introducing a re-engineered version of the single and duel-motor 3" SubDriver. You're my unsuspecting guina-pig, pal.

I can't get an e-mail off to you. Give me those dimensions here so I can fix you up.

David,

[greenman407]

I like being a Guinipig.............I think? I already posted the dimmensions. Scroll up a couple of posts on this page and you will see them.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Got 'em. Thanks, Mark.

David,

[roedj]

John,

I was going to surprise Mike, but might as well confirm that your ideas are actively being pursued: I'm re-introducing the 3" SD, with newly designed bulkheads. And, yes, it will be snort ready (THERE, Mike, I said it ... 'snort').

I'm open to suggestions as to design details and capabilities -- I won't start in on the bulkhead and hardware masters for a few weeks yet. There will be single and duel motor versions. You guys kick in ideas, I'll reduce the good ones to drawing features, share those documents with you all here, and we kick it around till we finalize the design. Just don't get stupid on me, that's all I ask.

OK, then. Floor's open to input, guys.

David,

David,

Here's my 'druthers' list:

1) I know it has SNORT but I'm hoping it will still have a Gas Saver mechanism.

2) I'm hoping that all, and I mean all, of the parts will be individually available for purchase.

3) Here's a wild one - I'd love to see a double sided bulkhead between the ballast tank and the forward compartment so the one could easily break it open there for experimentation purposes.

4) And finally, if there's any way to avoid the brass tube through the ballast tank I'd be most appreciative.

I'm hoping that I haven't gone too stupid on you,

Dan

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David,

Here's my 'druthers' list:

1) I know it has SNORT but I'm hoping it will still have a Gas Saver mechanism.

2) I'm hoping that all, and I mean all, of the parts will be individually available for purchase.

3) Here's a wild one - I'd love to see a double sided bulkhead between the ballast tank and the forward compartment so the one could easily break it open there for experimentation purposes.

4) And finally, if there's any way to avoid the brass tube through the ballast tank I'd be most appreciative.

I'm hoping that I haven't gone too stupid on you,

Dan

Dan,

Naw, never. Always good stuff from you.

No gas-saver: As the gas is an alternative, emergency option, we endeavor to keep it simple -- no gas-saver linkage, too many hours to manufacture, install and set-up properly. And it was one of the biggest problems people in the field had with our WTC/SD's.

Yes, Mike is working up an entirely new catalog and we will post the individual parts for sale. Damned good point and something we should have done years ago.

Offering a double-sided bulkhead is inviting people to screw things up, which leads to idiots telling me my system is broken. Keeping it Simple, pal!

I'm keeping the conduit tube holes. Put a cork in it if you don't like it, Dan (I've always wanted to say that in this context!).

Keep it coming, folk's.

MIKE!!!! LET'S MOVE THIS DISCUSSION OUT OF THIS THREAD AND START A NEW ONE, "3-INCH SD DESIGN SUGGESTIONS"

(Sorry, Mark).

David,

[Slats]

David,

3) Here's a wild one - I'd love to see a double sided bulkhead between the ballast tank and the forward compartment so the one could easily break it open there for experimentation purposes.

4) And finally, if there's any way to avoid the brass tube through the ballast tank I'd be most appreciative.

I'm hoping that I haven't gone too stupid on you,

Dan

Dan - a resounding NO to both of those.
David will tell you that I have campaigned and pestered him for years to get his 3.5" SD having a conduit through the ballast tank connecting the forward battery room with the engineering compartment. 2 decades in this game I can tell you a key piece of long term reliability IS no EXTERNAL POWER connections. The conduit - first appearing in the 3" original D&E WTC is as far as I am concerned the gold standard for the end user not having to deal with EVENTUAL reliability problems of external electrics. Removing this would be a departure from sensible protocols and I for one would not buy any SD that did not have this feature.

Also one of the things that attracted me to David's gas system was the gas saver. Since the advent of Snort I can honestly say after 100's of hours on patrol that you don't need the gas saver system.

Best
J

[roedj]

David & John,

(stomping off to a quiet corner with salty tears streaming down my cheeks)

OK, OK, you win (this time).

Dan (misty in Michigan)

[greenman407]

Last night I was able to spend about an hour or so on this thing.
Here you can see the original bulkhead that holds the prop shaft. Its got to go to make room for the new bulkhead that will hold the new propshaft and next to it, the 2nd driven shaft. The next picture shows it cut down, ala dremel. It will remain there to provide support..

[greenman407]

Then I fashioned a new bulkhead out of sheet plastic. It will house the bearings for the shafts. I will double it up where the bearings mount.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

(my response is below, but rather than hi-jack Mark's excellent Albacore thread, should this go into a new posting? - If so Mr Caswell please move this on.)

-The 3" should have all the features that the 2.5" and 3.5" currently has. For the motor end cap the gear box contained in the dry amongst the two joined endcaps is by far the best setup. It is easy to maintain / service and is a great use of functional space. The standard 4 fitted 1/16" push rod seals should be supplied as is the snort fittings in the usual centre most location.

Inside the motor end cap tray, can we try an avoid the folded metal and go for a cast resin / moulded style tray setup. The folded metal is waiting to snap just like scored styrene. The longevity is inferior to the resin / moulded style arm and trays supplied in the older 3.5". The cost might be higher but as an end user I'd pay a little more for a resin / moulded style tray.

There should be room, for simplicity and availability of different sized servos. Be this micro sized, mini, the 3/4 "mid sized" servos, or the stock standard larger ones (if you are only running 3 control servos). I am a fan of the micro servos but I have to say I noticed (not sure why), that the smaller servos will stall far easier than the full sized ones, and can chuck out higher amps under load (not stalled) than the full sized ones too. The 3" D&E WTC was originally designed in a time when standard sized servos were the most abundant and affordable, the 3" can amply accommodate three of these with no problems. Let the end user determine what they want to use by NOT limiting the tray mounts to a particular size.

The ballast tank area needs perhaps to be a bit bigger volume. Perhaps you could let the end user determine at ordering this length. The original design as yourself and other Albacore skippers attest to, provided ample ballast for that boat, perhaps you offer that size as the standard and let customers at extra cost obtain a larger tank if necessary.

Dump the gas saver as standard equipment. You won't need it in a snort fitted boat. Do fit / supply a gas tank and mount it in the vertical plane.

The battery compartment is the perfect size for 7.2v "stick" batteries, and given that some nanny state run model boat clubs have got there knickers in a knot over the risk of Lipo fires, having the option of using this sized battery is a good one. This size also allows the Lipos to be fitted, and or putting the ESC in this compartment to.

Best

J

John,

With your good input and that of the others I've frozen the design of the 'new' 3" SD. Started work on the masters yesterday. Here's what I have as of tonight:



As with the 'new' 3.5" SD I'll provide a long length of Lexan tube (1/8" thick wall) with installed after bulkhead -- and leave it to the client to determin the length of his ballast tank and forward dry space. Where he sticks the forward ballast bulkhead and forward bulkhead determins the length of those two compartments. Other than that, the SD's come assembled and tested.

Note in the above shot that I'm working both a single and a two motor motor-bulkhead.

[greenman407]

Cool! Looks good.

[greenman407]

Last night I payed further attention to this bulkhead. By using it as a Template I designed and cut out the end product, a bulkhead containing the bearing locations as well as a doubler.
The bearing locations dimensions center to center are determined of course by the center to center dimensions of the drive gears enmeshed. Tonight I will measure the bearings and drill out to accommodate them. Then we will need another bulkhead to carry the other side of the shaft on the port side. You will see.

[greenman407]

The center most mark is for the drive shaft which of necessity must be exactly parallel and on the centerline of the submarine. To make this work, one propeller, the farthest aft ,will be driven off of the stainless 3/16" shaft. The larger propeller will be driven by a brass tube that will be outside of the S.S. shaft. Or should I say that the S.S. shaft will be inside of the tube. Because of the close fit between the tube and the shaft there will be too much drag to use a full length tube so it will have to be sectioned up so that the close fitting tube will only be touching the shaft at the point of attachment of the bearing locations and the prop. Don't worry, Ill show you everything.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

... and lose the bow planes!