Scratch build Soviet Project 661 Anchar "Papa" Class SSGN K-222 1/120 Scale.

[Davidh]

Hello All,

After getting the top and bottom level and straight, I turned to dealing with the registration lip that would run around the inside of the lower hull and hold the top down. This is made from a strip of fibreglass that
is glued along the inside of the lower hull with the upper edge of the strip protrude about 3-4 mm above the edge of the lower hull. Once glued down I ran a file along the rim of the lower hull to smooth down any blobs of resin that may stop the upper hull from completely closing.

I once again used my customary bow assembly technique of gluing the lower hull at the bow to the top bow and using a small aluminium flat bar with a screw thread in it to secure the top and bottom hull sections and a lip in the rear of the upper hull to slide in under the back top hull section attached to the lower hull. This flat bar has to be glued onto the bottom bow section before the top and bottom can be glued together.
The bar points stern ward and aligns up with a hole drilled in the bottom of the lower hull that comprises the rest of the hull. I marked out a line, that runs from one side to the other, this will be where the lower cut will be made. I then glue the plate across the line. The will be cut out from underneath. I wrap the end with the solitary hole in sticky tape in order to make sure that the fibreglass does not stick to this end. Then I drill extra holes in the other end to allow the resin to flow all through the holes securing further, the front end.

Once this is done and glued securely , I then drilled the rearward hole with a smaller diameter hole that will act as a pilot later on for a larger one. Marking where the lower cut would line up with the top hull I then roughed up around the bow rim on top and bottom. I then secured down the top and bottom hull in just the right spot with tape and then glued the top and bottom section around the bow. I laid a thin strip of cloth and resin around the bow and let that set.


















I would not glue the stern top section on till I get all the stern arrangements just right. This would involve aligning and setting the two stern shafts in place and making sure that the horizontal planes were installed aligned and with free movement. This would involve a fair bit of time and fine tuning to get right. I initially started with an aluminium bar that would be the support for both the shafts. I have made a thinner aluminium bracket that bolts down over the top with a single bolt in the middle. The shafts are dampened by having nitro silicon line sleeved over them to dampen vibration. More detail to follow next week.

David h

[Davidh]

Hello all,

I found a whole heap of photos showing the lip that I used for the stern of the hull and the front that I did'nt put up last week. Because the rear top of the hull is essentially a double curve I cut out a rounded strrip in two to effectively cover the curves. Roughing up the surface and then using some P'yester resin mixed with some chopped strand gives good adhesion.

[Davidh]

So...

Now for all the mechanical stuff in the rear end. This boat is different in that I would be mechanising the middle flap in between the prop shaft booms. This is the only Russian Boat that I know of that has this arrangement, never repeated on Oscar or Delta. I do wish however that Papa had the twin vertical underside rudders that Oscar has, very cool. This area for this link up is really really tight. Its small and will need a very small pushrod arrangment. The one simple thing to produce will be the Vertical rudder shaft. I will not have to split it to get it around a prop.

Initially I started off by setting up the prop shafts. I glassed down an aluminium bar that would be the overall resting place for the shafts. I have thought hard about some kind of damping for the shafts and played around with some different materials such as rubber bands, seen here. I realised that they would eventually perish, along with anything rubber. Oh well see how it goes in initial testing of the shafts.
This area is so tight that once sealed up it is going to be seriously hard to access things, if a coupling or part goes pear shaped and doesnt work.







After cutting out the shafts for the Horizontal planes I needed to make a small bushing at either end to house the shafts and make sure that they aligned exactly relative to each other. These tiny bushings will simply be made out of fine brass rod and resined onto the edge of the rear hull where the shaft will penetrate. In order to do this i have to use a longer length of shaft ,coated with Lanolin to make sure that the are being resined ,which is tiny does'nt get into the bushings and glue shut the temporary aligning rod. That would not be good. I had to make a small semi circle where the bushing rests. I also had to grind out a square section for the block that sticks out of the stern plane moulding.





I spent a fair bit of time making sure that the top half of the stern also aligned up and that there was also a semi circle where the bushing would be pushing into the top half. I had to carefully measure the distance between the shaft and both stern booms to check for square. This took quite a while but is absolutely essential. Forward of the shaft is the aluminium plate that will be the mounting for the twin shafts that will be installed a little later.

After this I carefully ground down the excess glass around the edges of the bushings to allow the top hull stern section to simply push down over the top and close flush. The two holes were where I didn't quite get the alignment right the first time for the vertical rudder shaft. Anyway after this I needed to start installing the shafts because I needed to check that there would be enough space in between the outer side of the boom and the prop shaft in order to get a swinging push rod horn in for the horizontal plane.

I have the brass rods extrude about 5-6 mm from the bushing, thus giving just enough room for the brass plate to be soldered to the shaft allowing a push rod to be attached. As it is there is about 4-5 mm clearance between the side of the hull and then side of the shaft. Just enough to get a horn and clevice in place.







The prop shafts are held in place by a aluminium plate that is flexible and can be bent around the shape of the two shafts. I have also places a silicon nitro line "sleeve' over the shafts where they will clamp down over the aluminium bar that is glassed down. This arrangement will probably be changed as ultimately the alignment of the shafts to the outlets on the WTC are more important. These won't necessarily sit nice and neat on the aluminium as I have them here. I also intend on Gluing or glassing at the tapered rear end so that the shafts don't jump around which they'd likely do if not properly secured. I know this back end looks messy, however when the top is glued down, you ain't going to see it..



























Until next time...

[Davidh]

Hello all,

As can be seen from the previous photos I also installed the shaft for the Rudders. A much simpler operation. However I was frustrated with the limited travel that I was getting out of the horizontal planes. As the two horizontal planes were attached to their own shaft running back and joining to a common pushrod, all I needed to do was move this common pushrod laterally (sideways) and then I would get diffing amoints of travel out of the planes. Move them far enough to one side and one would be travelling upwards and the other down. I was also getting more up movement than down. This was frustrating as I wanted consistency between both pairs. I decided to pull the individual brass pushrods off each horn and devised a new design that I have called for want of a better term a "swaybar". This is where just like the conventional way of joining the rudders around a centre shaft I have created a very long U bend. It is soldered to where the holes are located on the horns and then a single clevice is attached to a soldered horn around the middle of the swaybar. It comes close to touching the inner bottom of the hull but guarantees that the two horizontal planes move exactly with each other. I have also attached the fine brass pushrod from the tiny horn attached to the inner flap. This has since proven to be a very effective design and I get far more movement from all surfaces.






After getting all the installation right and working I then focused once more on the Vertical fins. The top of the stern hull would lower down over the vertical shaft and would have to align with the bottom hull in such as way that the rudder shaft was dead vertical longitudinally and laterally. I started by gluing the lower rudder onto the brass shaft and then making sure that It aligned with the lower rudder post. making sure that the rear edge aligned with the hole that extends up through the bottom of the hull then up through the top of the hull yet to be glued down. Once the top hull is aligned then the top rudder is slid down and glued onto the shaft and then the top rudder post is glued over the top Slotting the brass bend in the top of the rudder creating the top pivot mechanism. Once all this was done then the whole assembly was effectively glued down. The only way to majorly take it apart would be to break the join of the top rudder on the brass shaft. A large amount of surface area to do so with. I also added a small amount of bouyancy foam...




Before closing the top section down I thickened up some resin with weave and talc, then laid it down in the trough where the shafts set and the very stern section of boom. I rubbed lanolin on the shafts as I didn't want to embed them rigidly in the resin. I then closed over the top section. I checked all the connections before finally lowering the top and dealing with the top rudder. Then Glues around the equator where the two halves meet and then applied filler. I carefully smoothed over gentle radius on the fillets around the horizontal planes as the transition to roots on the hull.

A round of gradually reducing wet and dry reveals and smooth set of curves and free moving horizontal and vertical surfaces.






Like all Soviet subs Papa had a while plethora of masts. I usually put about three on any given boat. I have already spent some time creating moulds for several of them to include in the kit. It was now time to turn to the fin. Firstly I drilled a 5 mm hole in the top of the hull inside the sail profile. This would be where a hold down bolt would attach the sail to the hull. I then cut out a small piece of fibre glass and drilled a corresponding hole in it. I then glued the bolt through this pointing downwards. The fibre glass piece being glassed in place down near the base of the fin, just slightly above. The bolt passes through to hull and is met with a nut that secures it.

After this I drilled a series of fine holes in the top of the fin that sits on top of the two sides. Then getting a fine square file grinding out to a square or rectangular profile. This would be the positions of the masts. I then took the top of the sides and drilled drainage holes that would not align with the mast holes as I wanted to drill these separately as to ensure a snug fit for the mast as it slides down into both layers of glass. I then glued to top down onto the sides and fillerd around the edges to get the transition smooth. Re-scribed some detail including the faceted panels on the front of the fin similar to the array pattern found on the bow of the Foxtrot class. then prayed with a matt very very dark grey. After this, install the masts.








Getting there!

Plenty more next week. Feel free to comment and give suggestions.

David H

[redboat219]

[Davidh]

Thanks Redboat.. (I still have a long way to go, to get better, but appreciate the feedback)


I'm in the final straight with this boat. Most of the work will soon go to internal fit out and arrangement. However there is still some sanding to be done over both hull halves with finer wet and dry to bring them both down to a smooth surface that will take the primer and surface coats with a nice finish. I am fortunate with the moulds for this boat that both hull halves have a really neat fit, there is only a mil or two here and there. So I spent the time looking over HWSNBN' s notes on Barbel as to how to use fuller to get a good transition between parts and create separation lines that are really fine.

So I took a file and found spots where the indexing lip could do with some sanding back so that the top hull would sit more easily over the top of the bottom. Also checking the stern and bow join to try and close the gap with how these sections will fit together more seamlessly. I've done this by adding filler over the top of the lip that slides under the top forward hull section that sets at the stern. Roughing up the lip allows the filler to stick effectively. On the underside of the top stern hull I have rubbed in Lanolin. I have also rubbed some lanolin onto the top of the forward hull section to stop any squished up filler pushing up out of the gap and resting forward of the joint, setting and creating a hard mess that needs to be cleaned off. I have also run lanolin along the side rims of the upper hull lip and roughed up the upper edge of the lower hull to take filler that will run along the edge of the hull to create a smooth transition along the length. (Got all that !)










Once you have filled the stern back joint I then used tape to hold down the rest of the hull in position and make sure that the two hulls were exactly aligned where they need to be. I also applied some tape along the edge of the top hull to make sure that the filler does not go where it ain't needed. Once done then I'd go around the join area and apply filler. Once hardened I would go around with some 180 grit and work my way down to smoother and smoother paper. The emphasis is on getting the two halves of the join to meet at the same level and have a really tight part line. On the side of the hull , the greater the difference between the hull lips the greater the amount of filler you need to lay down to get a better smooth and consistent radius. It is important that the curve leading up to the hull section that is wider, follows the profile of the hull section coming to meet it.












After a lot of sanding and reapplying of filler then sanding back I finally had hull halves that closely matched up and were looking really good. Then I gave a spray of primer around the edges of the parts and checks fit once more. The stern hull join is really close and neat and straight. Once this is done then I can look at getting the top hull sprayed with the colour I eventually want for the boat. I am going for an extremely dark grey. Virtually black but not quite. Looking at photos of the Papa this looks like the colour that has become of the boat after being in the ocean. Looking at photos of the Hulls of Papa and Alfa, the sheen on the metal does to me look slightly different to steel hulled boats. You certainly don't get rust. I cannot see any rust on this boat, being Titanium.

I have had dramas with my little spray gun and found that it was giving me hassle with the pain that I was using. I decided to use a spray can of Matt Black paint. Gave it a coat and then went over the whole top hull with the fine air brush. The top hull now has a really nice sheen. I taped around the bow at the Equator to get a nice division between where the anti-foul lower hull starts.


As can bee seen on this photo I have still yet to square the holes on the bottom hull. The brass rod sticking out of the front hull just before the join is the shaft for the front planes. I have decided to drill two brass rods to support these forward planes because they easily get banged up around the side of the pool. A second shaft also keeps the plane in the zero angle position.




















Have drilled out and filed square the vent holes that are prominent on the side of the hull aft of the fin. I like the Matt sheen for this hull.







After the top hull I will mark off the bottom hull and look at spraying a faded red anti- foul. Most likely a light orange red colour.



David H

[JHapprich]

Very quiet here...
The PAPA clearly shows the good quality of your kits now! Much has been improved. Really looking forward to build one myself in the future. An extraordinary boat.
Jörg

[Davidh]

Hello all,

So I have been reading over HWSNBN's write ups on spraying and finishing hulls. This will call for alot of masking tape to line around edges and so forth. I have been studying a lot of photos of Russian boats in drydock. There are some really good photos especially of Oscars with the scum line around the water line with the contrast between the faded anti foul mixed with algae dried to a powdery white colour and the dull grey sheen of the upper hull. The contrast is something.

I am assuming that these pics were taken some time after the boat was hauled out of the water. The light tan as mentioned I am assuming is the dried algae that turns to powder and is then scrubbed off. It would be interesting to see the colour of this algae immediately after the boat comes out of the water. Much more green and dark brown I imagine.



I intend to go for a look that is half way between this and just launched. It would be interesting to find out from somebody who knows, How long would it have taken for the Oscar to get this level of bleaching from a new coat of paint to this look? 1 year, 5 years? 10 years? I will have a pale orange underside where the anti-foul is fading but not completely gone.

With the top hull down I taped up the top hull to re-create the fine while line that runs around the waterline and is usually the perimeter where the scum line starts and does down the hull. This meant that I would need to create two lines of tape with newspaper once again over the top of the hull. going over the hull I checked that once again it was absolutely level and flat. This was really challenging around the booms as this line goes around the top and weaved its way around the lower stern edge of the rudder. I then gave gradual long strokes of white to get a nice consistent line.


It is important that you really press the tape into the surface otherwise bleed like what you can see at the stern can creep in. I still have to do some work on the props.


In the previous photos the top has been done with a nice very dark grey that I am happy with. Now I am turning my attention to re-creating and anti-foul red on the bottom. So I have assembled both hull halves and then start taping around the equator, making sure that the tape is absolutely level all the way around. This will require some creative taping around the stern planes and twin booms. I add newspaper over the top hull to make sure that absolutely no paint gets onto the top hull. I then fire up the compressor and mix up the oche paint that I will be using. I have a small fine spray brush that does a really good job and gives a fine consistent spray. Lots of gradual passes build up the consistency. After leaving to dry I can peel the tape off.




I though that I covered all the upper hull to avoid any unwanted spray but there is a small amount of white just to the right side of the vertical fin. You can also see the bleed around the curve of where the waterline wraps around the topside of the booms.




I have touched up the waterline. Below the waterline it probably isn't such a critical thing because the algae line will begin just beneath this line and move its way down. No I I needed to mix up and get the
algae colour right. I have gone with a tan colour. I have a lighter colour and a slightly darker one. the lighter colour will be sprayed over most of the hull from the waterline down to about halfway down the lower hull. I will then go over the area immediately below the waterline with a light spray of darker tan that will blend in with the lighter colour and will gradually lighten as it goes down the hull. I will then eventually spray an very fine hint of green right near the waterline.

[Peter W]

David....." still a long way to go to get better " ? Mate you're building models that I would love to have and in my opinion doing it well !!

Peter

[trout]

To give you an idea of what color it is in water....Here is a nest of Kilos

[Scott T]

I wonder if you could dip paint the water/scum line?

[Davidh]

Thanks Trout, Peter W and Scott T,



So I've added the fine green algae finish just below the waterline and also sanded back and finished the props. Then gave them a good spray of a bronze tint. Then took some photos.















As you can see she's already been in the water. I have still some bugs to iron out, including a recent issue with the prop shafts of the new cylinder. refer to thread in tips N tricks. One thing is for sure, she's like her full size,. Quick.......

David H

Enjoy.

[Peter W]

1st class David, 1st class !

Peter

[Davidh]

Thankyou Peter,

I haven't spent time talking about the internals of the boat. However earlier on in the build I did spend a bit of time going over the cylinder and ballast system. I have decided to use a pump system based on the sheerline design that has been around for decades. I have used this system for over ten years now and although I have used a subdriver and continue to do so with Mike, I really like the sheerline set up.

The major departure in design for me is the fact that I have decided to put the pump on the outside of the cylinder. This will make for one less giant hole in the front endcap to have to waterproof. It will simply meant a different plumbing arrangement. I have also decided to make a stand alone ballast tank that will sit in front of the cylinder. Unlike my previous designs it will not be an integral middle part of the cylinder. It means that each boat I build will need it's own ballast tank bolted down. But made out of PVC pipe with PVC endcaps they are really cheap and easy to seal. That green PVC cement stuff is awesome.

For Papa I have had to make a custom made PVC tank. The Diameters available are either way too small or too large. So I have created essentially a short but wide tank. I took a 90mm pipe, cut it and split it down the centre. Removed a section and bought it down to about 85mm . Repeated the process so created two layers and sealed it good with the green stuff. After reinforcing the ends I then drilled a hole and placed pickup made out of nylex garden nozzle pipe with a bend to touch the bottom of the tank. The other end going through the rear baulk head and out to the cylinder behind it. Seal it all up, give it an hour and blow air in , pinch and stick it underwater, no leaks, Yay!!









This ballast tank was then fitted with two pvc brackets made from flattening out two strips of PVC plastic and heating them flat. Then heat bending them to an "L" shape and drilling a hole. I them made up some small brass brackets that were fixed to the side of the hull at front and back and then a stainless steel bolt secures the tank front and end. I initially had the concern that the ballast tank being a little forward of the c of G could cause problems however I had no ability to move it any further backward. As it is the cylinder is as far back as I can put it.



This pic shows the rear of the ballast tank snugly fitted into the hull with the silicon tube coming out of the pick up that will connect to the outlet of the pump as it exits the forward endcap. Forward of the tank is as much foam as I could load and the rectangular placing for the big SLA 12 v battery to sit. Then the front of the boat is just foam, foam, foam. The raised curved fibreglass piece in front of the tank is the cradle to sits the front of the cylinder so that it is sitting level with the hull.

There is sheet lead up front. Being my first twin shaft boat I am not accustomed to not having to deal with torque roll. I am guessing that it probably shouldn't be an issue. I am hoping that I am not going to have to use lots of lead to counteract this. Placing the boat in the water soon revealed that I would need a lot of foam down the back end. She sits low at the back as photos will attest. Problem is that there is very little space in the back end for foam. It's pretty tight down there...




Testing is often fixing heaps of little things, and one big thing, TRIM. Papa has been full of surprises, Trim has turned out to be easy. It took very little extra lead and foam. I must have guessed well to start with and the concern about the ballast tank being slightly forward did not eventuate. She dives beautifully. No, the pesky problems involved pushrod connections that kept coming loose, a loss of ballast tank pressure and a few glitchy connections inside the cylinder along with a drive shaft coupling that slipped. Now fixed due to crimping a brass shaft. This boat seems to want to work. She has to date had the fewest bugs to iron out of any boat I have built so far. Fingers crossed.. As mentioned before, she's quick...

[trout]

Sweet! That looks wonderful cruising underwater!
I do have a question, if I understand what you are doing, you are pumping water into the ballast tank and causing pressure to buildup in the tank. Then reversing that process to surface. Right? If I am tracking o.k. here, from your design there will be a little water left in your tank, because of the shape of your pick up line, when your tank is fully blown. At the end of the day, how do you get the rest of the water out?