I am in the learning stages about everything submarine related. Scheduling has not allowed me to attend a dive tribe gathering yet but I did listen with interest to the recorded video of the November 30 gathering. There was quite a lot of discussion re. heat concerns using PLA. My understanding is that the recent introduction of PLA+ goes pretty far to eliminating the concerns with heat other than in extremely high temp locations like Arizona. Those of you who were discussing PLA in the gathering, were you also including PLA + or were you strictly referring to the older PLA? Any other experiences with PLA plus and temps would be good to hear. Thank you in advance.
Nov 30 DT Gathering: PLA+ question
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PLA is excellent for prototyping. It's cheaper than PLA+ so PLA is a good filament to start with as you learn the ins-and-outs of FDM printing. Both absorb moisture and require all sides to be sealed for best results. Heat resistance will be better with PLA+ but the temps where you operate may factor in.
The optimal filament for submarine models is ASA or PETG. Both print at higher temps and require a heated enclosure but are less prone to the excessive layer lines found in PLA prints which require extensive sanding and sealing for optimum looks. -
I’ve had no problems with using PLA+ for my WTC endcaps and bulkheads, just don’t leave your sub sitting in your car on a hot summer day. I’ve since switched to PETG for all my 3D prints, excellent material, don’t need to deal with toxic fumes associated with ASA and ABS.Comment
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Hi Timothy,
I certainly agree with CC Clarke, and NEITOSUB on their related experience on using PLA. I have not used the PLA plus or PETG as of yet, and my only issues with any 3D printing is the toxic fumes that are given off during printing. I have health issues that limit me as to what I can use.
I have currently built over 20 PLA submarines that are totally operational (in swimming pool only) I have learned over the years that the PLA needs to be glued and sealed properly for water use, also heat is a big issue for me in the summertime (Arizona). You do not leave your sub out in the direct sunlight or just sitting out around in general on 100 plus deg. days. PLA certainly has its restrictions for submarine building that is for sure, but it has worked well for me and my situation, and for sure you have to use a few precautions as to finishing PLA to adapt it for our submarine use.
Timothy, if you're interested, I do have several build blogs on this forum on many of my sub builds with PLA 3D printing that might give you some insight as to what I have done that might help you...
Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat."
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Thank you all.
Rob, having lived in Arizona for over 50 years I have a clear understanding of the heat problems there :-) Living in Western, MA now, my heat concerns are not quite as severe LOL. Nonetheless, even here we have warmer days.
As I read and hear modeler‘s experiences with different 3-D media, I see a lot of varying opinions. as a result I think, for me, the best approach will be to print sample hull sections in PLA+, PETG, and ABS and subject them to heat exposure while checking for warping, brittleness etc. I do not do 3-D printing myself but my friend is very heavily involved with it and keen to experiment as well. I’ll report back results here.
By the way, I very much enjoyed your comments on the gathering video and sure would like to know what the submarine was behind you on the screen - beautiful!
TimComment
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Funny you mention MA. I printed my first hull (PLA) in CT a few years ago and while spray painting it outside in 80-degree weather, I went in the house for no more than 15 minutes, and that was more than enough time for the hull to deform around the lower hull to the point it became a 4th-of-July recipient of a long string of fire-crackers.
Now I'm in AZ, and have tested (large) resin-prints using ABS-like resin in triple-digit summer heat for an entire day. No deformation whatsoever, and the hull joints were still press-fit.
FDM prints with ABS filament should be more than up to whatever heat you may encounter in MA. It's a little more challenging than PLA, but easy with the right printer.
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Thank you CC Clarke - I’m thinking I will eventually wind up with ABS but I would still like to see what the PLA+ does. Fortunately my friend’s printer is a Bamboo printer and has filters etc. so he can do the ABS. Lots of time because this is a long-term project. Currently working on a different sub.Comment
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Thank you all.
Rob, having lived in Arizona for over 50 years I have a clear understanding of the heat problems there :-) Living in Western, MA now, my heat concerns are not quite as severe LOL. Nonetheless, even here we have warmer days.
As I read and hear modeler‘s experiences with different 3-D media, I see a lot of varying opinions. as a result I think, for me, the best approach will be to print sample hull sections in PLA+, PETG, and ABS and subject them to heat exposure while checking for warping, brittleness etc. I do not do 3-D printing myself but my friend is very heavily involved with it and keen to experiment as well. I’ll report back results here.
By the way, I very much enjoyed your comments on the gathering video and sure would like to know what the submarine was behind you on the screen - beautiful!
Tim
The submarine you are referring to is the British HMS Stickleback. If you are interested in 3D printing out this submarine the STL files can be found using the listing below. Timothy, you might want to consider joining the Nautilus Dive Tribe? Great bunch of guys, and they may be a great resource for you as you move through the hobby... :-))
You can also check out Nautilus Drydocks 3D print files similar X Class boat. I have several of Bob's STL files, and that are really great...
Yet another superb 3D file set thanks to the creative talents of Randy Sanders. The X class was a World War II midget submarine class built for the Royal Navy during 1943–44. Known individually as X-Craft, the vessels were designed to be towed to their intended area of operations by a full-size "mother" submarine – usually one of the T class or S class – with a passage crew on board, the operational crew being transferred from the towing submarine to the X-Craft by dinghy when the operational area was reached, and the passage crew returning with the dinghy to the towing submarine. Once the attack was over, the X-Craft would rendezvous with the towing submarine and then be towed home. The craft was about 51 ft (16 m) long, 5.5 ft (1.7 m) maximum diameter and displaced 27 long tons (27 t) surfaced and 30 long tons (30 t) submerged. Propulsion was by a 4-cylinder Gardner 4LK 42 hp diesel engine, converted from a type used in London buses and a 30 hp electric motor, giving a maximum surface speed of 6.5 knots (12.0 km/h; 7.5 mph) and a submerged speed of about one third of that. The weapons on the "X-Craft" were two side-cargoes – explosive charges held on opposite sides of the hull with two tons of amatol in each. The intention was to drop these on the sea bed underneath the target and then escape. The charges were detonated by a time fuse. The craft were fitted with electromagnets to evade detection by anti-submarine detectors on the sea bed and also with sonar and a periscope. This set of files will allow you to print out your own hull for a beautiful representation of this craft in 1/24 scale, netting an overall length of approximately 650mm (25.6") and with a beam of 84mm (3.3"). This size makes it perfect for the Nautilus Drydocks 250 Series EasyDriver for RC operation. Max part height is 160mm.
Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat."
Last edited by rwtdiver; 12-02-2024, 07:05 PM.Comment
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Thanks again everyone.
Rob, I did join the dive tribe a while back but every time a dive tribe gathering is scheduled there seems to be something else that I scheduled beforehand! Hopefully I’ll be able to join in and listen during the coming months! Thank you for the info on that sub!
Type7 - unless recently introduced PLA+ proves to have substantial heat resistance and is less susceptible to moisture I suspect I will wind up using ABS as well. I think the PLA+ is worth testing though since they seem to be recognizing that the heat issue is a problem for many people.Comment
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Thank you CC Clarke - Iâm thinking I will eventually wind up with ABS but I would still like to see what the PLA+ does. Fortunately my friendâs printer is a Bamboo printer and has filters etc. so he can do the ABS. Lots of time because this is a long-term project. Currently working on a different sub.
Last edited by CC Clarke; 12-03-2024, 12:01 PM.Comment
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You are kind of dependent on the designed thickness of the model. 3mm is pretty thin and 6mm is too thick. Also print with 100 percent infill and I use at least 2 loops of wall. Helps if there is reinforcement where the parts join and a lip on top and bottom sections.Comment
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As mentioned, unless you design your own hulls, you are limited to whatever the thickness the original designer used. If it's a small model with a 1mm hull, you can upscale it to increase the thickness only.
3mm wall thickness is sufficient for a 5-6' model if the material is strong enough. ABS is pretty tough. Test-print a hull section and determine if it is thick enough for your needs.
CCComment
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For those using FDM printers, this is a handy Materials Guide bookmark:
Ultimate 3D Printing Material Properties TableComment
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