Mike and I Are Producing a New Sub Kit

[reddevil]

Wait a minute. I think I've missed something. Are you talking about the canoe or about fitting torpedo tubes to the fellow with flippers?

[Von Hilde]

Gentelmen, I didnt know about this thread, coo beans! I have been building my boats around cigar shaped pressure hulls that will facilitate a WTC cylinders. The fore and aft cone shaped sections are the primary pieces that can be used in various scales with defferent diameter and liengths of center sections. Basiclly, Im saying, if I got my hands on one of those kits, I would chop the hell out of it build a Type II cannoe around it.

[Slats]

I missed this excellent thread.

Why not do a smaller version say 1/20 th of the X craft.
Mike you have the plans for this.

To me the GRP commercial X craft models are so big they cross the boundary for scale model to "toy like", which is why I won't buy one.

You put a vac kit together in this scale or thereabouts of an X-craft and I'd buy it and the SD to go with it.

Also - what about a large scale DSRV - or some sort of research sub?

[Slats]

Was going to ask, David / Mike what are the size limits of your machine?

J

[Slats]

Just looked that butt ugly canoe thing.

Andy I disagree 100%.

Unless Mike and David's market needs to be realigned for range of Barbie doll accessories. **** NO!
People who want an entry level boat may not want or need exacting scale, but they want something that resembles a model, and not a 4 year old's dinky toy or Gi-Joe.

I like your suggestion of something like the previous Robbe Seawolf much better Andy, at least that looks semi scale.

[Subculture]

Think you should read what I posted- I didn't pitch the Canoe, or the action man boats, that was Chuck. I just illustrated the way they look and perfom via a couple of vids.

Delfin type hull will outsell any x-craft or DSRV by a factor of ten, because it's a hull shape that can lend itself to many different types of boat e.g. personal sub, orca, chubby Albacore/sushi style sub etc. etc. That widens appeal, plus the shape is close to perfect for good handling- an easy driver.

In addition the shape is easy to render well on vacformer and doesn't have much in the way of detail. Once you go down the path of requiring resin and metal parts, the price goes skywards.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Fair observation there. And a proper r/c model submarine kit can not help but contain resin and metal parts.

David

[Slats]

Think you should read what I posted- I didn't pitch the Canoe, or the action man boats, that was Chuck. I just illustrated the way they look and perfom via a couple of vids.

Delfin type hull will outsell any x-craft or DSRV by a factor of ten, because it's a hull shape that can lend itself to many different types of boat e.g. personal sub, orca, chubby Albacore/sushi style sub etc. etc. That widens appeal, plus the shape is close to perfect for good handling- an easy driver.

In addition the shape is easy to render well on vacformer and doesn't have much in the way of detail. Once you go down the path of requiring resin and metal parts, the price goes skywards.

Gotcha Andy meaculpa!

[Subculture]

Something like the Delphin could get by without resin parts, the control surfaces are basically flat going by reference photos, so they could be sheet plastic. Only the propeller need be custom, although a conventional two blader could be used, with the option of a scale upgrade for the purists.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

... Metal bell-cranks and propellers; G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces; metal control surface hinges and bearings; cast resin stern cone-stern tube; cast resin K-Corp guy under dome; resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs ...

[Subculture]

Metal bell-cranks and propellers Can be plastic

G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces Can be plastic

metal control surface hinges and bearings Hinges- plastic again, with metal pins. Bearings, agreed metal, but these items are off the shelf, not custom and cost peanuts.

cast resin stern cone-stern tube Double up with plastic

cast resin K-Corp guy under dome vac form in two pieces.

resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs could all be plastic.

[Slats]

Metal bell-cranks and propellers Can be plastic

G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces Can be plastic

metal control surface hinges and bearings Hinges- plastic again, with metal pins. Bearings, agreed metal, but these items are off the shelf, not custom and cost peanuts.

cast resin stern cone-stern tube Double up with plastic

cast resin K-Corp guy under dome vac form in two pieces.

resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs could all be plastic.

Agree with all that Andy and an X craft would have similar demand on pieces. Why don't you think it would sell? The regatta's I go to X craft in smaller size than that has been offered is a frequently discussed topic.
This year by the way is the 70th Anniversary of "Operation Source" - not sure what the Delfins battle history is - but the X craft history is legendary.
J

[Subculture]

Not trying to pour cold water on your idea, but the market for any scale of x-craft will be primarily to UK and homesick ex-pats. Native U.S and European modellers are unlikely to be interested- just my gut instinct.

In the UK, most modellers would consider an x-craft that scale too fiddly and small and won't buy it. Maybe there are a few modellers down under that would be interested, but what number are we talking about here, into double digits?

IMO the best way to approach a project like this, is to get like minds together, pool your respective talents and divvy up the tasks to produce a limited run of models to satisfy each member of the group. If demand then proves to be stronger than first thought then you can produce more kits, and divvy up the profit to recoup building costs, or sell on the tooling to an interested third party.

[herrmill]

This is certainly turning into an interesting discussion.

Not to tweak anyone's buttons but I only brought up the point about "Barbie doll accessories" with mention of the canoe, manned torps, etc.. as a potential crossover into other markets to bring in additional sales, i.e., $$$ for Mssrs. Caswell & Merriman because we all know that nobody is going to get rich producing another sub kit. I know a few guys who do quite well in the area of 1:6 scale figures combined with RC armor so there is truth to the notion that some folks still haven't lost their obsession for collecting toys & drop copious amounts of cash in the process. That is, after all, what its all about, isn't it?

[Slats]

This is certainly turning into an interesting discussion.

Not to tweak anyone's buttons but I only brought up the point about "Barbie doll accessories" with mention of the canoe, manned torps, etc.. as a potential crossover into other markets to bring in additional sales, i.e., $$$ for Mssrs. Caswell & Merriman because we all know that nobody is going to get rich producing another sub kit. I know a few guys who do quite well in the area of 1:6 scale figures combined with RC armor so there is truth to the notion that some folks still haven't lost their obsession for collecting toys & drop copious amounts of cash in the process. That is, after all, what its all about, isn't it?

Chuck I like to distance myself and kids from drooling types in raincoats. :biggrin: Reminds me of an Episode of MASH where Henry Blake is ranting that someone broke his souvenir doll that he had on his desk.

Seriously a midget sub can work, but scale figures - probably best leaving that up to the Chinese doll people.

IMHO all of this discussion is very well intentioned but I see it being **** in wind. Its serious coin here that Mike and David "risk".

What is needed is elasticity of demand data (sorry but that is what I do) and some market research.
Elasticity part- usually based on real sales (recent the better) showing what kits etc were sold and what price.

Couple that with market research -
Online poll - or via e-mail or via the Sub Drivers Gazette.
Divide the poll reposnes via:
-Previous buyers
-Site Visitors
-Site members

Offer perhaps no more than 3 choices of new kit and survey 4 different price ranges.
Get at least 50 responses. Pool that information.

In looking at the responses from previous buyers - weight each response according to previous spend and order history. Those consumers that have spent / ordered more are the equivalent of Frequent Flyers. Yes their are no guarantees but the odds favour repeat and more sales from this customer base,

Then consider consumer opportunity cost: - limited hobby budget by each customer.
Is a customer prepared to buy the new kit, when for example they might be wanting a Revell kit plus Caswell parts and Subdriver? Can their budget buy both or one or the other. You can look at previous expenditures over say a annual basis and roughly work out what the customers budget was / is. In some cases you might be observing "one-off" purchases but again this data can give you some guidance.

My 2CW - and I don't mean to be patronising to Mike - who in my view is a very smart business guru in his own right.

Cheers.

J