Mike and I Are Producing a New Sub Kit

[ffr2608]

Dave,
How about the SDV we were talking about last year? Perfect vacform subject with a lot of control surface. By the way, I want one of those delfins too.

Darrin

[trout]

Make a modular system that a beginner can start as basic as possible and then add more to it (lights, torpedoes, trim tanks or something like hover mode in the video, surface to air missiles, you get the idea). Make it a non-real sub, but a possible sub, something that has a cool factor, watch this:

what do you think?

[Slats]

Couldn't agree with you anymore in your comments, John. Just wanted to point out that catering to several markets is certainly better than one if it make sense with new product. BTW, no one is talking about making or selling figures aside from, of course, what we've seen by David's latest 3 piece Type 23 crew set. :wink:

Yep i get where your coming from Chuck- but not meaning to be a pessimist, I just don't think the hobby will never really be "cheap". I remember the 1990's intro discussions by people like David explaining that the hobby costs money, and the new guy needed to prepare to shell out.

Even "poverty packs" will be a few hundred bucks. Its not just the plastic kit - although the cheaper that can be made the better for the bigger "cheaper" end of the market. The bigger cost will be the innards that make them work.

The largest "new" market we have in my view are model boaters, and I think I've ranted enough on that crowd before. -But here's a short one. It never ceases to amaze me how these guys lap up a plastic model kit, like a Revell kit, and then are dumbstruck that they have to spend money outside of their sphere of assumed **** hot skill to make it work. Model boaters are the biggest bunch of tight-wads I have ever seen. They'll drop a grand or more on a larger scale GRP ship kit, and then they'll spend $2 painting it, and seek out the dumbest most crude RC unit and ESC to drop into it.

Cheap submarine toys from Walmart AKA china exist, but I think that is a different market again to the mainstream sub guys.

[herrmill]

Couldn't agree with you anymore in your comments, John. Just wanted to point out that catering to several markets is certainly better than one if it make sense with new product. BTW, no one is talking about making or selling figures aside from, of course, what we've seen by David's latest 3 piece Type 23 crew set. :wink:

[Slats]

This is certainly turning into an interesting discussion.

Not to tweak anyone's buttons but I only brought up the point about "Barbie doll accessories" with mention of the canoe, manned torps, etc.. as a potential crossover into other markets to bring in additional sales, i.e., $$$ for Mssrs. Caswell & Merriman because we all know that nobody is going to get rich producing another sub kit. I know a few guys who do quite well in the area of 1:6 scale figures combined with RC armor so there is truth to the notion that some folks still haven't lost their obsession for collecting toys & drop copious amounts of cash in the process. That is, after all, what its all about, isn't it?

Chuck I like to distance myself and kids from drooling types in raincoats. :biggrin: Reminds me of an Episode of MASH where Henry Blake is ranting that someone broke his souvenir doll that he had on his desk.

Seriously a midget sub can work, but scale figures - probably best leaving that up to the Chinese doll people.

IMHO all of this discussion is very well intentioned but I see it being **** in wind. Its serious coin here that Mike and David "risk".

What is needed is elasticity of demand data (sorry but that is what I do) and some market research.
Elasticity part- usually based on real sales (recent the better) showing what kits etc were sold and what price.

Couple that with market research -
Online poll - or via e-mail or via the Sub Drivers Gazette.
Divide the poll reposnes via:
-Previous buyers
-Site Visitors
-Site members

Offer perhaps no more than 3 choices of new kit and survey 4 different price ranges.
Get at least 50 responses. Pool that information.

In looking at the responses from previous buyers - weight each response according to previous spend and order history. Those consumers that have spent / ordered more are the equivalent of Frequent Flyers. Yes their are no guarantees but the odds favour repeat and more sales from this customer base,

Then consider consumer opportunity cost: - limited hobby budget by each customer.
Is a customer prepared to buy the new kit, when for example they might be wanting a Revell kit plus Caswell parts and Subdriver? Can their budget buy both or one or the other. You can look at previous expenditures over say a annual basis and roughly work out what the customers budget was / is. In some cases you might be observing "one-off" purchases but again this data can give you some guidance.

My 2CW - and I don't mean to be patronising to Mike - who in my view is a very smart business guru in his own right.

Cheers.

J

[herrmill]

This is certainly turning into an interesting discussion.

Not to tweak anyone's buttons but I only brought up the point about "Barbie doll accessories" with mention of the canoe, manned torps, etc.. as a potential crossover into other markets to bring in additional sales, i.e., $$$ for Mssrs. Caswell & Merriman because we all know that nobody is going to get rich producing another sub kit. I know a few guys who do quite well in the area of 1:6 scale figures combined with RC armor so there is truth to the notion that some folks still haven't lost their obsession for collecting toys & drop copious amounts of cash in the process. That is, after all, what its all about, isn't it?

[Subculture]

Not trying to pour cold water on your idea, but the market for any scale of x-craft will be primarily to UK and homesick ex-pats. Native U.S and European modellers are unlikely to be interested- just my gut instinct.

In the UK, most modellers would consider an x-craft that scale too fiddly and small and won't buy it. Maybe there are a few modellers down under that would be interested, but what number are we talking about here, into double digits?

IMO the best way to approach a project like this, is to get like minds together, pool your respective talents and divvy up the tasks to produce a limited run of models to satisfy each member of the group. If demand then proves to be stronger than first thought then you can produce more kits, and divvy up the profit to recoup building costs, or sell on the tooling to an interested third party.

[Slats]

Metal bell-cranks and propellers Can be plastic

G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces Can be plastic

metal control surface hinges and bearings Hinges- plastic again, with metal pins. Bearings, agreed metal, but these items are off the shelf, not custom and cost peanuts.

cast resin stern cone-stern tube Double up with plastic

cast resin K-Corp guy under dome vac form in two pieces.

resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs could all be plastic.

Agree with all that Andy and an X craft would have similar demand on pieces. Why don't you think it would sell? The regatta's I go to X craft in smaller size than that has been offered is a frequently discussed topic.
This year by the way is the 70th Anniversary of "Operation Source" - not sure what the Delfins battle history is - but the X craft history is legendary.
J

[Subculture]

Metal bell-cranks and propellers Can be plastic

G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces Can be plastic

metal control surface hinges and bearings Hinges- plastic again, with metal pins. Bearings, agreed metal, but these items are off the shelf, not custom and cost peanuts.

cast resin stern cone-stern tube Double up with plastic

cast resin K-Corp guy under dome vac form in two pieces.

resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs could all be plastic.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

... Metal bell-cranks and propellers; G-10, laser-cut stabilizers and control surfaces; metal control surface hinges and bearings; cast resin stern cone-stern tube; cast resin K-Corp guy under dome; resin snorkel mast; resin SD foundations and hull indexing tabs ...

[Subculture]

Something like the Delphin could get by without resin parts, the control surfaces are basically flat going by reference photos, so they could be sheet plastic. Only the propeller need be custom, although a conventional two blader could be used, with the option of a scale upgrade for the purists.

[Slats]

Think you should read what I posted- I didn't pitch the Canoe, or the action man boats, that was Chuck. I just illustrated the way they look and perfom via a couple of vids.

Delfin type hull will outsell any x-craft or DSRV by a factor of ten, because it's a hull shape that can lend itself to many different types of boat e.g. personal sub, orca, chubby Albacore/sushi style sub etc. etc. That widens appeal, plus the shape is close to perfect for good handling- an easy driver.

In addition the shape is easy to render well on vacformer and doesn't have much in the way of detail. Once you go down the path of requiring resin and metal parts, the price goes skywards.

Gotcha Andy meaculpa!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Fair observation there. And a proper r/c model submarine kit can not help but contain resin and metal parts.

David

[Subculture]

Think you should read what I posted- I didn't pitch the Canoe, or the action man boats, that was Chuck. I just illustrated the way they look and perfom via a couple of vids.

Delfin type hull will outsell any x-craft or DSRV by a factor of ten, because it's a hull shape that can lend itself to many different types of boat e.g. personal sub, orca, chubby Albacore/sushi style sub etc. etc. That widens appeal, plus the shape is close to perfect for good handling- an easy driver.

In addition the shape is easy to render well on vacformer and doesn't have much in the way of detail. Once you go down the path of requiring resin and metal parts, the price goes skywards.

[Slats]

Just looked that butt ugly canoe thing.

Andy I disagree 100%.

Unless Mike and David's market needs to be realigned for range of Barbie doll accessories. **** NO!
People who want an entry level boat may not want or need exacting scale, but they want something that resembles a model, and not a 4 year old's dinky toy or Gi-Joe.

I like your suggestion of something like the previous Robbe Seawolf much better Andy, at least that looks semi scale.