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**Von Hilde** · 09-01-2013, 05:48 AM

I believe you may be confused. Redboat simply asked if he should include the decks on a model depicting war patrol configuration. Answer is no because they were removed from all the war patrol boats. All 61 of the commissioned boats had the deck mounts installed at the factory. These "dotted lines" or" containment framework" as you call them are simply steel tabs with fastener mounting holes cut in them. They were welded to the pressure hull on all the XXIIIs. The 13 early production boats from Kiel were initally equipped the wood decks, since they were still getting the hardwood from the German held S Africa sources. There was no room aboard for stowage so the decks remained ashore and were installed for servicing the boat or cerimonial operation. The 6 boats that actually made war patrols were some the few built in Kiel by the way. The 61 that were assembled in Hamburg were built at remote instalations in sections and sent to Hamburg by rail for assembly. By this time in the war the wood source had been cut off by the Allies and the decks that were already built were utilised by the boats comming out of Hamburg. (one size fits all) I only mentioned hydrodynamics as (one) of the main features of the boats. Actually there were many besides the Walter propulsion system. I would say the 9 second crash dive would be right up top, of course except for the one drawback was it would keep on going unless the planesmen were on their toes. Being faster underwater than up top was a big feature, as well as the "Muffler" that was stuck on the back. The big downside of the XXIII was 2 shots, no spare torpedos and, in port. external loading only. They had to lift the bow out of the water with a crane to stick the torpedos in. Only a 200 n.mile range submerged kept them operationally close. As for the Hai and Hecht's DKM wartime activity,it was nul and short, U2367 (hecht) was sunk after a collision with another u boat during training, May 5 1945 and the U2365 (hai)was scuttled intact on May 8 45. They were both raised in 1956 and re commissioned in the DBM in 1957, as Hai and Hecht. After that all bets are off about deck configguration or sonar arrangement

**greenman407** · 09-04-2013, 08:35 AM

**Von Hilde** · 09-04-2013, 06:13 PM

good pic of the hai's HG sonar under the bow, in the sling, at the splash, and in the drydock with the snow on her

**greenman407** · 09-05-2013, 08:41 AM

**Warpatroller** · 09-07-2013, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by Von Hilde

I believe you may be confused. Redboat simply asked if he should include the decks on a model depicting war patrol configuration. Answer is no because they were removed from all the war patrol boats. All 61 of the commissioned boats had the deck mounts installed at the factory. These "dotted lines" or" containment framework" as you call them are simply steel tabs with fastener mounting holes cut in them. They were welded to the pressure hull on all the XXIIIs. The 13 early production boats from Kiel were initally equipped the wood decks, since they were still getting the hardwood from the German held S Africa sources. There was no room aboard for stowage so the decks remained ashore and were installed for servicing the boat or cerimonial operation. The 6 boats that actually made war patrols were some the few built in Kiel by the way. The 61 that were assembled in Hamburg were built at remote instalations in sections and sent to Hamburg by rail for assembly. By this time in the war the wood source had been cut off by the Allies and the decks that were already built were utilised by the boats comming out of Hamburg. (one size fits all) I only mentioned hydrodynamics as (one) of the main features of the boats. Actually there were many besides the Walter propulsion system. I would say the 9 second crash dive would be right up top, of course except for the one drawback was it would keep on going unless the planesmen were on their toes. Being faster underwater than up top was a big feature, as well as the "Muffler" that was stuck on the back. The big downside of the XXIII was 2 shots, no spare torpedos and, in port. external loading only. They had to lift the bow out of the water with a crane to stick the torpedos in. Only a 200 n.mile range submerged kept them operationally close. As for the Hai and Hecht's DKM wartime activity,it was nul and short, U2367 (hecht) was sunk after a collision with another u boat during training, May 5 1945 and the U2365 (hai)was scuttled intact on May 8 45. They were both raised in 1956 and re commissioned in the DBM in 1957, as Hai and Hecht. After that all bets are off about deck configguration or sonar arrangement

I am definitely confused about where you're getting your information from..

The Germans never held any territory in South Africa (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "S Africa" ). Maybe you got confused and meant to say North Africa?

German wood sources were never cut off by the Allies.. The Germans continued to get wood from Norway and from Asia (provided by the Japanese).

The first 20 boats to be launched into the water all came out of Hamburg, not Kiel. The first being U2321 launched from Hamburg on April 17, 1944. Don't know where you're coming up with this 13 early production boats from Kiel stuff. There were a total of 13 boats to come out of Kiel, that much is correct. The first Kiel boat was not launched until mid October of 1944 (the same time the 21st Hamburg boat was launched). The second Kiel boat launched in November 1944. 48 of the 61 boats were Hamburg boats.

NONE of the 6 front boats (boats that reached war patrol status) were built in Kiel. All 6 of the front boats came out of Deutscheweft, in Hamburg. Among these were the Hamburg boat, U2336, commanded by Kapitanleutnant Klusmeier. The only XXIII to slam both eels into two unsuspecting ships while on patrol..

May 7 1945, inside the Firth of Forth, off the coast of Scotland, two British freighters are traveling in the water.. U2336 is in the water.. Farewell and audieu to you fair Scottish ladies.. Farewell and audieu to you ladies of Scotch!

It was not my intent to get into a posting contest regarding fun facts to know about type 23 U-Boats.

Modelnut, was the one that asked about the deck planking on war patrol boats. There was no "Plank Blank" order issued by BdU, stating that once a type 23 reached front boat status that the wooden planks can no longer be installed on the boat.

I wanted to make sure that modelers reading this thread would not think they are doing something wrong or historically incorrect if they choose to "plank" their 23 model. Or feel that the only way they can build a correct model, with deck planking, is if they do a training boat, or early production boat in training phase only. No proof exists to merit a blanket statement, that no plank was ever placed on the deck of a 23 front boat, at any time, during such status.

If you want your model to depict one of the 6 front boats while it is out on its one or two war patrols, you probably want to leave the planking off the boat. If you want to depict it at port, or manuevering around port, feel free to plank at will! I know I will!

**greenman407** · 09-09-2013, 08:34 AM

...............................moving right along.................Im fresh out of pictures. Be back when I have somemore.

**Von Hilde** · 09-10-2013, 11:35 AM

Here is a map of Vichy French territories 1942. Madagascar fell to the brits May 5 42 but the rest of the Vichy remained pro German until the Liberation.South cape of Africa was covered by the Royal Navy and no Axis commerce passed from the orient. After D day the Allied blockade of all shipping from, or to Axis powers was in full effect. The 8th AF had blasted the most of the factorys by September 44 and started on transportation targets, railroads, shipyards ect. Sweeden quit dealing with Germany by Christmas, the Dutch had a RR strike and wouldnt send anything to Germany any more, and the only vessels that could sneek out of Narvik were U boats.You are correct about the manufacture of 6 XXIII Front boats. my information was a composit of the uboat. net and U bootwaffe.net, that seems to be somewhat conflicting at times and I had jotted notes down on paper as to what boats were where. By the time I had finished I had a page full of shorthand and numbers. Anyway, decks or no on anybodys model makes no differance to me. But now I have to have one in 1/72, after all this hub bub about them.