An idea for a vent valve

[oztruck]

I was thining the twin motors for the pumps could be driven by

A: switch 2 way. B: ESC with a diode on each motor. C: servo driven micro switch or DPDT center off switch.

There must be a few more ways!.

Thinking of adding a filter to the snort intake. which would be flushed everytime every time it dived

I would like it to be easy to install, reliable, with zero maintanice. (Set and Forget)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

... and I would like the entire woman's volley-ball association dancing on my groin. But thats not going to happen either.

Zero maintenance!

You gotta be kidding!? Maybe you're in the wrong game, Kiddo?

David,

[oztruck]

Ok, he who wears a pointed hat and a dress and knows everything, where do you see potential problems. I know that if you never try to do something you will never know if it can be done. Lets work together and see just how good it can be made to work.

Luv ya work

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Ok, he who wears a pointed hat and a dress and knows everything, where do you see potential problems. I know that if you never try to do something you will never know if it can be done. Lets work together and see just how good it can be made to work.

Luv ya work

LOL. OK, I had that coming.

But, you over-engineer the ballast water management task. You lost me the moment I saw two pumps. Why employ a second pump to empty the tank when a simple, smaller, less current sucking vent-valve will do the job? I'm a minimalist. You're a Rube Goldberg disciple.

Are your designs the result of practical ballast sub-system fabrication and use, or just an excess of leisure time and availability of computer software doodling applications?

Now for a reality check ... or, if you will, a my-****-is-bigger-than-your-**** challenge:

I've currently got over 20 fully capable r/c submarines in my stable.

How many you got? To date have YOU tried to do something in this arena ... besides banging out concepts on the olé computer?


David,

[oztruck]

David. The heading for this thread is? "An idea for a vent valve" . It seems that some are not as happy as others with the current vent valve and were looking at other options. I have this idea and as soon as my other pump turns up I will put it to the test. It should work on both tank and bladder types.
The line I was taking is one switch, two pumps, hose, filter, two "T"'s. In fact all I have done is replace the valve, seal, the linkage and the servo along with all of their adjustmenting points with a pump. Rube Goldberg disciple?, I think not.


So David because I have not had a vast amount of subs that you have and as such don't know as much as you yet, I will ask again. Apart from the over the "Rube Goldberg" part can you tell me where I might run into problems with the twin pumps

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

OK, I failed to bully you into submission; you came back at me with confidence and a measured challenge, suggesting I get off my elitist butt and present my argument, without the vitriol. All right then ...

Like the current Caswell-Merriman gas and LPB/Snort ballast sub-system, your proposed two pump unit requires two channels, one for the gas blow and one for the two pumps (one pump to blow air into the tank to empty it, the other pump to suck air out of the tank to fill it).

Operationally you'll find (the first time you run an actual boat you'll come to realize this) that you will desire the ballast tank to fill as quickly as possible. That won't happen if you use a pump to meter out the air as its displaced by ballast water -- your boat, employing your two-pump sub-system, will take a very long time to transition from surfaced to submerged trim.

And, in the smaller WTC/SubDriver's, where room and battery capacity are at a premium, the second pump is a liability.

This thread was set up, as I see it, to find resolution to the sometimes unreliable Merriman vent valve; to come up with an alternative that worked every time, did not leak air, and either precluded or reduced the need of maintenance and adjustment. And this thread has stayed on track -- your proposal keeping with the intent and spirit of the discussion.

My smart-ass taunts at you, oztruck, with little supporting argument from me to clarify my objection was a bit over the top and unfair to your well presented and sincere attempt to come up with a viable ballast water management sub-system.

However, my argument remains: your sub-system takes up too much room, sucks too much current, and (this is the first time I've pointed this out) will take too long to vent the tank.

Mechanics aside, you're the better man. You demonstrated a maturity and steadfastness I too quickly dismissed.

I like you.

David,

[Outrider]

Looks like the Wiz finally got the child-proof stopper off his medications...

Now back to improving the vent valve.

[Kazzer]

OK, I failed to bully you into submission; ------------blah ---- blah -blah--------

Mechanics aside, you're the better man. You demonstrated a maturity and steadfastness I too quickly dismissed.

I like you.

David,

WoW! I like you too Oztruck. You never wavered from the bum for a minute! Unfortunately, I notice no ideas for improvement of this valve from The Cave, and I have to concede that so far, the original unit works better than anything else around.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Well, I see that you Bums are enjoying the Moment here!

As to the original vent valve:

Without any public notice, I identified, about a year ago, a flaw in the cast resin valve bodies I employ aboard the Caswell-Merriman SubDriver (why does he get top billing, anyway!?) and retooled to correct the problem. This move greatly reducing the failure rate of the vent valve. What was happened before the fix was the 'lip' on the valve body that made the watertight seal between the body and the hemispherical rubber element sometimes possessed a pin-hole as a consequence of the casting process. These leaky vent valve bodies often went through testing without identification of the problem -- bad testing protocol -- and went out to customers who in turn could never get rid of a small but persistent leaking of the air/gas within the ballast tank once the model was immersed.

That problem has been fixed -- a more thorough testing regiment and a re-engineered vent valve body.

Though I do appreciated that the set-up and dial-in of the three blow-vent valve points is still a bit of a pain and that you guys are doing your best to come up with an alternative, to this date I remain unconvinced of any qualitative and user friendly alternatives. But, keep it up, I'm of an open mind here (and some of you, I'm sure, at this point in the back-and-forth would love to open up my mind .... with a can-opener or hacksaw!).

David,

[Kazzer]

......................employ aboard the Caswell-Merriman SubDriver (why does he get top billing, anyway!?)
David,

Huh! I never put my name at the front of your Sub-drivers, that's entirely your idea Mr. M. (Hmmm! Sub-driver - it has such a nice ring to it, don't you think?)

Why can't he get this stuff right? KLY-CONS indeed!

[redboat219]

There's a really neat design for a combined vent and blow valve by a Belgian modeller in the excellent Traplet publication 'Submarines- models and their originals' which any model submariner serious about their hobby should have in their bookcase.

You will need a lathe to make it however.

Can you at least describe to us how it operates.

BTW, does anyone have any pictures or illustrations of the MBT vent valves used on modern boats.
I remember seeing a drawing of it in a training booklet posted on another site but I'm having problems downloading it.

[redboat219]

How about using one of those servo operated air valves used in retracting RC model aircraft landing gears. You could put it inside the dry space and connect it to the ballast tank using hoses positioned at the top of the ballast space.

[Kazzer]

How about using one of those servo operated air valves used in retracting RC model aircraft landing gears. You could put it inside the dry space and connect it to the ballast tank using hoses positioned at the top of the ballast space.

Do you have a better picture, showing its actual size relative to something else, or some dimensions please?

[redboat219]

Typical air control valve length is 2"

http://www.robart.com/products/1-position-2-port-air-control-valve-green

[oztruck]

Hi, back again. My other pump arrived from Caswell last week which pushed me to finish my MkIII square water tight thingy.

We had a club Christmas BBQ on the weekend so I rushed and got the MKIII built and installed in my newly converted Dumas Akula. I changed it a bit, now it looks more like a Alfa.

After the sub was trimmed I tested the "Twin pump ballast Thingy" in the bath tub on Friday. Full of air it rides very high, a bit higher than photos of when they are at the docks. It sits level with the prop just under the water. Of cause when the air is pumped out it was sitting nice and level with 1/4 inch of the sail sticking out of the water.

Charged the main batteries and the TX batteries Friday night and loaded into the car Saturday looking forward to a FUN day.
Put it in the pond ready to go, turned on the "Gounder" pump and after a long 67 seconds it was ready to cruse. Worked very well but it is now different to drive than before. Hit the bottom a few times and had a bit of fun trying to keep it level.

Came back to the side of the pond and did some UPs and DOWNs. It seems to come up quicker than going down and what
I found was it would be full of water 4/5 seconds before it sliped under. Pumped the tank full of air, secured it along side my tug and went and had lunch.

After lunch played speed boat with it on the surface and came back in to show one of the members up close how well it works.
Turned on the "Gounder" pump and that is what it did, one minute later there it was sitting on the bottom of the pond. My jaw droped my eyes poped and the member said "thats coool" "how do you get it back up".

I have found out the hard way that to snort without gas is BAD. I did not have a gas system. How dumb can you be and still breath?.

No photos yet. It is still drying out. It only takes a few ounces of water to go from 1/4 inch of sail out of the water to sitting in the mud.

Short story, my "Twin pump ballast thing" works. To pump ALL the air out took 67 seconds, it seems to come up quicker but even after it is up it takes a while before the bubbles appear to let me know it is full of air.

If I pump less air in it should submerge quicker, but I didnt get a chance to try it YET.

Cheers Chris