Scratch Build Soviet Project 667 BDRM Delta IV SSBN K-18 "Karelia" Scale 1/140

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  • JHapprich
    Captain
    • Oct 2017
    • 712

    #76
    Another picture: Click image for larger version

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    • DMTNT
      Commander
      • Jun 2018
      • 297

      #77
      Very impressive David. This has always been a favorite design of mine and she's looking great!
      Dead men tell no tales...

      Comment

      • Davidh
        Captain
        • Nov 2010
        • 719

        #78
        Hello all,

        Thanks Jorg for the pics and Brady for the comments. Slowly and surely, I'm happy with how she's coming along....

        The front has needed a fair amount of sanding, extra filling and sanding back to give a nice smooth surface that can then have the scribing worked back over the front deck. Once this was done,
        I decided to go back to working on the missile deck and the Renshape cap that goes along the top and runs down to meet the hull towards the stern. Like almost all SSBN's the Missile doors wrap down the sides of the missile deck. I decided that before gluing the top Renshape cap down I would scribe the detail of the wrap down rectangular sections of the missile doors. No other part of detail from the top of the deck wrap down like this and the doors are probably the most noticeable bit of scribeing on the boat. Because the sides of the missile deck are made of plywood I would need to one again go at it with the dremel and grind out rectangular profiles of the doors as they wrap over the sides. Once that was done I then lightly sanded and then filled with filler and sanded back. Again checking for alignment.


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        The two Renshape pieces are glued on a bed of filler. I pasted filler onto the top of the missile deck around the perimeter and then pressed the Renshape onto the deck. I used a try square to check for flatness all over. Then wiping off the filler around the edges, making sure that the filler didn't go back into the area already scribed. I scribed the sides of the doors before gluing down the Renshape strip onto the deck. Checking very carefully that they would align properly.

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        After gluing down the top and filling around the sides, I needed to then re-scribe, making sure that as I crossed the edge between the two materials I did'nt press too hard as I crossed over onto a softer material, depending on the direction I was heading. I did'nt want a sudden deep section. The sides of the Renshape took a beating as I sanded back the filler and got a smooth transition around the edges and a nice radius. Alot of the time I was simply scribeing dust out of the grooves already made. After this top section was down and square, I would then start looking at gluing down the back end

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        As can be seen I will need to create a Renshape strip just like at the front for where the back deck transitions towards the hull. With the Renshape missile deck section meeting the rear hull, you can see there is a little bit of a drop that will need to be transitioned and smoothed down to create the distinctive stern section of the 667.


        Talk about that next week. Anyway in the meantime, any ideas or thoughts greatly appreciated....

        David H

        Comment

        • trout
          Admiral
          • Jul 2011
          • 3545

          #79
          David,
          Looking good. I may have a photo of the upper aft end of a Delta. It may not be a 4, but from photos I have seen, the basics look to be the same. I will post later today or tomorrow and you can make a call on that.
          Peace,
          Tom
          If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

          Comment

          • trout
            Admiral
            • Jul 2011
            • 3545

            #80
            Hopefully some of this helps
            I have this book
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            On the Delta there are these photos:
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            The Yankee looks close, did the Russians really do much creative changes?
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            If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

            Comment

            • trout
              Admiral
              • Jul 2011
              • 3545

              #81
              Let us try a different way.
              If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

              Comment

              • trout
                Admiral
                • Jul 2011
                • 3545

                #82
                I am missing how to get these photos larger.......
                If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                Comment

                • trout
                  Admiral
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 3545

                  #83
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                  One last try.
                  If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

                  Comment

                  • Davidh
                    Captain
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 719

                    #84
                    Thanks for all the effort Trout. I have seen this book on Amazon. I didn’t know if it was worth getting.

                    The material you’ve got there covers the earlier delta 2s and 3s and as you said , the yankees. Biggest difference between all of them and the Delta 4 is that the Delta four has a circular hull profile whereas all the earlier boats had an oval cross section. There were more drainage slots around the side of the missile deck and the stern had the twin booms arrangement of the Papa and Oscar which I think looks much nicer.


                    Dave.

                    Comment

                    • Davidh
                      Captain
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 719

                      #85
                      Hello all,

                      After gluing down the top Renshape strip along the missile deck I then glued the angled Renshape section that transitions back down to the hull. Just like the top section I glued it down with a mixture of filler that would squish out the sides and be wiped up. This section had less in the way of scribe work that wraps down the sides like the missile deck doors of the flat main section. As a result sanding and aligning this section turned out to be much easier.

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                      As I pressed down the angled section I took the try square and checked for square-ness. I then realised that there was a dip in the middle where the Renshape had gone through a dip and would need to
                      paste some filler in place to bring the surface up to level. This would then need a smoothing and sanding over making sure that the transition between the Renshape and filler at either end is really consistent.
                      As you can see I also pasted some filler around the sides, now needing to make sure that the radius of the hull curing up to meet the deck was consistent on both sides. I also carefully put some filler into the
                      gap between the two Renshape pieces.I would need to Rescribe over where these joins occurred.



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                      I also use the Blue spray putty not only on the smaller 3D printed parts that I have made but also on sections of hull. It is pretty good at getting a low level fill of some of the smaller and shallower imperfections. I have a grey filler that I have also used, although I have found this grey one to be a bit lumpy. Once sprayed over I could them apply filler once again to areas of imperfection. I also once again went over the
                      overall shape of the rear section and checked for quareness and straightness.

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                      As can be seen with the last photo there is quite a big drop between the transition from the angled deck to where it intersects with the rest of the hull. This is deliberate as there is a raised section that is flat but meets the angled deck as it comes down. To make this I have cut out a flat section of Renshape that will be glued down like at the front and then filled around the sides and sanded back..



                      David H
                      Attached Files

                      Comment

                      • Davidh
                        Captain
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 719

                        #86
                        Hello all,

                        The rear section behind where the missile deck angles down and meets the stern of the hull features initially a flat section that gradually curves down either side as it approaches the twin booms. The section is outlined roughly by safety lines that run just short of the main escape hatches in front of the Vertical fin. These safety rails retract into the hull and are round in section. If you look at photos taken down their length, they are not consistently straight but are somewhat irregular as they weave their way up onto the missile deck and approach the back of the sail.

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                        As shown in the last photo I have taken a strip of Renshape and shaped it to create the flat initial section as it sits just behind the back of the missile deck. It is about the same width as the sloped deck section. I measured out where the piece of Renshape would fit and taking some superglue fixed it in place, whilst making sure that the piece was level and square. Around the Renshape I pasted on filler either sides to start the gradual slope that runs down the side of the flat and also the very gradual transition out the back of the deck and it very subtly smooths down and transitions with the rest of the hull. I overfilled the filler so that with some 80 grit paper I could make short work of it. Checking all along that the side profiles were exact and that the gradual and very subtle transition between the end of the Renshape and the gradual shape down to the wood stern block would not feature any unintended undulations. I then put some filler in the area where the angled deck joins the straight. All the photos of this shown a distinct angle change, its not gradual. So I had to be careful in getting this just right. I also had to be careful when sanding filler next to Renshape that the different hardness’s meant I took too much off one surface and not another. I could easily take off more of the Renshape a bit too easily. I had to also paste lots of filler in along the section where the missile deck fillets into the curve of the hull. I had to make sure that the gradual curve blended in smoothly with the appearance of the flattened deck section. This meant pasting material in a curved pattern either side and forward of the angled break.


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                        As you can see in the above pic, the inward curve of the lower angled missile deck section kind of creates an optical illusion where the missile deck looks like its slightly raised above the flat section. This is where it was really important to make sure that the profile change didn't pronounce this effect. If you look at the full size hull at a height level with the rear deck this illusion isn't apparent.

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                        After smoothing out the transition between the decks I sprayed a couple of layers of spray putty and then re-scribed the detail on the angled hull and rear section.


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                        Once this was done I worked my way to smoother and smoother paper. All the while checking for symmetry. Once again sanding revealed imperfections and dints that needed to be filled a little further then sanded out again. The flat section of Renshape goes right over the top of the transition between the PVC pipe and the start of the stern hull blocks. I therefore pasted filler into the gap between these two different materials. This is an area that I have had to keep my eyes on. I sit the hull on top of my work bench where it gets direct sunlight. At this point in the year It’s not too warm at the moment so there is little issue with expansion and contraction however a couple of months ago in January in the middle of Summer, I had to cover the model when not working on it or over time I would find very fine cracks occur at the joint between these two materials. Now the sheet over the hull is just habit.


                        Dave H

                        Comment

                        • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                          Moderator
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 12253

                          #87
                          David, your work has improved in symmetry and fidelity over the years. However, you're scribing work -- though also improved over time -- is atrocious! Let's get you schooled properly so your efforts will present a much better looking display.

                          Please post pictures of your scribing tools, templates, and word description of substrates you engrave into. I'll work up a detailed instructional. Time for the advanced class, pal. You are worth my time.

                          David
                          Who is John Galt?

                          Comment

                          • Davidh
                            Captain
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 719

                            #88
                            Hello David,

                            As you know If I don't have Renshape to work with and I am scribing into timber I will dremel out a channel into the timber and then fill with polyester filler. Then after sanding down to the same profile as the surrounding area I will them mark out the areas I need to scribe and go for it.

                            I use a pointed small round file. I have found this to be quite effective. It is certainly easier in Renshape than even the filler. The trickiest surface to scribe into is PVC pipe. I thought my scribing was getting better but admit it is the Achilles heel for me at the moment along with getting thick enough silicon moulds. I use thin sheet templates to scribe out the various shapes that I need, these are shown in the following pics.

                            I hope this helps,

                            thank you.

                            Dave H

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                            Comment

                            • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                              Moderator
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 12253

                              #89
                              Very good. The pictures tell the tale, as well as your description of the various substrates you engrave into. This long weekend I will develop a detailed presentation of the tools and techniques to employ to tighten up your scribing work. And I applaud your non-confrontational response to my pointed observations -- not too many people have such grace under fire. Good on ya. That makes you a good (receptive) student. And in this game, we are all students till the day we assume room-temperature; there is no pinnacle, only an infinitely long incline.

                              David
                              Who is John Galt?

                              Comment

                              • Davidh
                                Captain
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 719

                                #90
                                Hi David,

                                As you probably know, I am a high school teacher, teaching what is called in the NSW education system, "TAS" or 'Technology and Applied studies'. (Really just an Industrial Arts teacher). I realized long ago that you are a straight shooter and when you make comments about my work it's because you know I can do better. I'm fine with that, appreciating that I have the potential. I get enough Crap from some students at school that don't want to learn and its probably the most exhausting part of my job, that I don't want to be like them. So many of these kids are robbed of the long term skill development that they could acquire if they persevered on projects longer than the instantaneous realm that technology dictates to them. It is a long slow journey of improvement. I would just like to think that I count in this department. When I see a mentor worth being under I'm not going to waste the opportunity.

                                Go for it...

                                Dave

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