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Scratch Build Soviet Project 667 BDRM Delta IV SSBN K-18 "Karelia" Scale 1/140

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  • #76
    David,
    Looking good. I may have a photo of the upper aft end of a Delta. It may not be a 4, but from photos I have seen, the basics look to be the same. I will post later today or tomorrow and you can make a call on that.
    Peace,
    Tom
    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

    Comment


    • #77
      Hopefully some of this helps
      I have this book
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      On the Delta there are these photos:
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      The Yankee looks close, did the Russians really do much creative changes?
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      If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

      Comment


      • #78
        Let us try a different way.
        If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

        Comment


        • #79
          I am missing how to get these photos larger.......
          If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

          Comment


          • #80
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            One last try.
            If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

            Comment


            • #81
              Thanks for all the effort Trout. I have seen this book on Amazon. I didnít know if it was worth getting.

              The material youíve got there covers the earlier delta 2s and 3s and as you said , the yankees. Biggest difference between all of them and the Delta 4 is that the Delta four has a circular hull profile whereas all the earlier boats had an oval cross section. There were more drainage slots around the side of the missile deck and the stern had the twin booms arrangement of the Papa and Oscar which I think looks much nicer.


              Dave.

              Comment


              • #82
                Hello all,

                After gluing down the top Renshape strip along the missile deck I then glued the angled Renshape section that transitions back down to the hull. Just like the top section I glued it down with a mixture of filler that would squish out the sides and be wiped up. This section had less in the way of scribe work that wraps down the sides like the missile deck doors of the flat main section. As a result sanding and aligning this section turned out to be much easier.

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                As I pressed down the angled section I took the try square and checked for square-ness. I then realised that there was a dip in the middle where the Renshape had gone through a dip and would need to
                paste some filler in place to bring the surface up to level. This would then need a smoothing and sanding over making sure that the transition between the Renshape and filler at either end is really consistent.
                As you can see I also pasted some filler around the sides, now needing to make sure that the radius of the hull curing up to meet the deck was consistent on both sides. I also carefully put some filler into the
                gap between the two Renshape pieces.I would need to Rescribe over where these joins occurred.



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                I also use the Blue spray putty not only on the smaller 3D printed parts that I have made but also on sections of hull. It is pretty good at getting a low level fill of some of the smaller and shallower imperfections. I have a grey filler that I have also used, although I have found this grey one to be a bit lumpy. Once sprayed over I could them apply filler once again to areas of imperfection. I also once again went over the
                overall shape of the rear section and checked for quareness and straightness.

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                As can be seen with the last photo there is quite a big drop between the transition from the angled deck to where it intersects with the rest of the hull. This is deliberate as there is a raised section that is flat but meets the angled deck as it comes down. To make this I have cut out a flat section of Renshape that will be glued down like at the front and then filled around the sides and sanded back..



                David H
                Attached Files

                Comment


                • #83
                  Hello all,

                  The rear section behind where the missile deck angles down and meets the stern of the hull features initially a flat section that gradually curves down either side as it approaches the twin booms. The section is outlined roughly by safety lines that run just short of the main escape hatches in front of the Vertical fin. These safety rails retract into the hull and are round in section. If you look at photos taken down their length, they are not consistently straight but are somewhat irregular as they weave their way up onto the missile deck and approach the back of the sail.

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                  As shown in the last photo I have taken a strip of Renshape and shaped it to create the flat initial section as it sits just behind the back of the missile deck. It is about the same width as the sloped deck section. I measured out where the piece of Renshape would fit and taking some superglue fixed it in place, whilst making sure that the piece was level and square. Around the Renshape I pasted on filler either sides to start the gradual slope that runs down the side of the flat and also the very gradual transition out the back of the deck and it very subtly smooths down and transitions with the rest of the hull. I overfilled the filler so that with some 80 grit paper I could make short work of it. Checking all along that the side profiles were exact and that the gradual and very subtle transition between the end of the Renshape and the gradual shape down to the wood stern block would not feature any unintended undulations. I then put some filler in the area where the angled deck joins the straight. All the photos of this shown a distinct angle change, its not gradual. So I had to be careful in getting this just right. I also had to be careful when sanding filler next to Renshape that the different hardnessís meant I took too much off one surface and not another. I could easily take off more of the Renshape a bit too easily. I had to also paste lots of filler in along the section where the missile deck fillets into the curve of the hull. I had to make sure that the gradual curve blended in smoothly with the appearance of the flattened deck section. This meant pasting material in a curved pattern either side and forward of the angled break.


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                  As you can see in the above pic, the inward curve of the lower angled missile deck section kind of creates an optical illusion where the missile deck looks like its slightly raised above the flat section. This is where it was really important to make sure that the profile change didn't pronounce this effect. If you look at the full size hull at a height level with the rear deck this illusion isn't apparent.

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                  After smoothing out the transition between the decks I sprayed a couple of layers of spray putty and then re-scribed the detail on the angled hull and rear section.


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                  Once this was done I worked my way to smoother and smoother paper. All the while checking for symmetry. Once again sanding revealed imperfections and dints that needed to be filled a little further then sanded out again. The flat section of Renshape goes right over the top of the transition between the PVC pipe and the start of the stern hull blocks. I therefore pasted filler into the gap between these two different materials. This is an area that I have had to keep my eyes on. I sit the hull on top of my work bench where it gets direct sunlight. At this point in the year Itís not too warm at the moment so there is little issue with expansion and contraction however a couple of months ago in January in the middle of Summer, I had to cover the model when not working on it or over time I would find very fine cracks occur at the joint between these two materials. Now the sheet over the hull is just habit.


                  Dave H

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    David, your work has improved in symmetry and fidelity over the years. However, you're scribing work -- though also improved over time -- is atrocious! Let's get you schooled properly so your efforts will present a much better looking display.

                    Please post pictures of your scribing tools, templates, and word description of substrates you engrave into. I'll work up a detailed instructional. Time for the advanced class, pal. You are worth my time.

                    David
                    "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Hello David,

                      As you know If I don't have Renshape to work with and I am scribing into timber I will dremel out a channel into the timber and then fill with polyester filler. Then after sanding down to the same profile as the surrounding area I will them mark out the areas I need to scribe and go for it.

                      I use a pointed small round file. I have found this to be quite effective. It is certainly easier in Renshape than even the filler. The trickiest surface to scribe into is PVC pipe. I thought my scribing was getting better but admit it is the Achilles heel for me at the moment along with getting thick enough silicon moulds. I use thin sheet templates to scribe out the various shapes that I need, these are shown in the following pics.

                      I hope this helps,

                      thank you.

                      Dave H

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                      • #86
                        Very good. The pictures tell the tale, as well as your description of the various substrates you engrave into. This long weekend I will develop a detailed presentation of the tools and techniques to employ to tighten up your scribing work. And I applaud your non-confrontational response to my pointed observations -- not too many people have such grace under fire. Good on ya. That makes you a good (receptive) student. And in this game, we are all students till the day we assume room-temperature; there is no pinnacle, only an infinitely long incline.

                        David
                        "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Hi David,

                          As you probably know, I am a high school teacher, teaching what is called in the NSW education system, "TAS" or 'Technology and Applied studies'. (Really just an Industrial Arts teacher). I realized long ago that you are a straight shooter and when you make comments about my work it's because you know I can do better. I'm fine with that, appreciating that I have the potential. I get enough Crap from some students at school that don't want to learn and its probably the most exhausting part of my job, that I don't want to be like them. So many of these kids are robbed of the long term skill development that they could acquire if they persevered on projects longer than the instantaneous realm that technology dictates to them. It is a long slow journey of improvement. I would just like to think that I count in this department. When I see a mentor worth being under I'm not going to waste the opportunity.

                          Go for it...

                          Dave

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Scribing is a pet hate of mine. I find a cured resin is the easiest stuff to cut into. Unless you're making a very shallow scribe using a tapered tool is a bad idea, as the groove will get wider as you press down, and it makes it difficult to control the line. i make parallel scribes from old junior hacksaw blades, broken xacto/scalpel blades, small srill bits etc. You can use a grinder to dress them into shape.

                            Did the scribing of slots and hole markings a while back on 1/22 Seehund tower, not 'Merrimen zen' level but reasonably pleased with result. thankfully most my subjects of interest don't need much scribing.

                            DIVE IN! Go on, go on, go on, go on, GO ON! http://www.diveintomodelsubmarines.co.uk

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              'Merrimen zen' - There's a moniker that might get quite a bit of use in the future! We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
                              Always a little further; it may be
                              Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow
                              Across that angry or that glimmering sea.


                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by HardRock View Post
                                'Merrimen zen' - There's a moniker that might get quite a bit of use in the future! We are the Pilgrims, master; we shall go
                                Always a little further; it may be
                                Beyond that last blue mountain barred with snow
                                Across that angry or that glimmering sea.

                                **** you!

                                David
                                The Horrible
                                "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                                Comment

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