Motor amps and total amps.

[Mooneyjock]

I found a 2 1/2" SubDriver at an auction and bought it. It has dual motors, so I am going to use it for my Revell Gato project. I was wondering how many amps the motors draw? I am going to replace the semi aspirated ballast system with a simple snork system driven by a geared water pump. I am trying to figure what size ESC I will need based on the total estimated amperage draw from motors, pump and radio/servos. Any suggestions? I'm planning on using three servos, rudder, bow plane, bow plane retract. Motors and ballast will be controlled directly from the receiver using a dual ESC and rear dive plane by the AD2..
Thanks,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I found a 2 1/2" SubDriver at an auction and bought it. It has dual motors, so I am going to use it for my Revell Gato project. I was wondering how many amps the motors draw? I am going to replace the semi aspirated ballast system with a simple snork system driven by a geared water pump. I am trying to figure what size ESC I will need based on the total estimated amperage draw from motors, pump and radio/servos. Any suggestions? I'm planning on using three servos, rudder, bow plane, bow plane retract. Motors and ballast will be controlled directly from the receiver using a dual ESC and rear dive plane by the AD2..
Thanks,

Those motors are geared 3:1 and stalled pull about two-Ampere at twelve-Volts each. The little Mtroniks, Viper Marine (rated at ten-Ampere's) is fine if you put one on each motor. Disconnect the 'red' wires from their leads and provide all hotel loads from a dedicated BEC fed off the main bus. Use a BEC rated for at least three-Ampere's.

Why gut the WTC's ballast sub-system? It's already there. Why reinvent the wheel, as some fool, back in the day, took the time to engineer and make that system work? Why would you fix something that ain't broke?

David

[Mooneyjock]

First of all, Thanks David for the information, I will put it to use. I was thinking of using a two channel input and dual output 20A ESC. That way I can run the two motors off one output and the pump motor off the other.

Next: Oh Oh! I had better smell my shoes. Have I stepped in it?

I may still use the SAS, but my thinking on the SNORK system is that a simpler system will have fewer fail points and require less tweaking than a more complex system. I will be eliminating a servo, vent valve, snorkel valve, safety float valve, replace the center ballast cylinder with one that has only two small holes for the vent at top and pumped water inlet/outlet at the bottom and cover the vent valve push rod seal in the aft ballast bulkhead with a pieces of Flex-Seal tape. Also because the boat is positively buoyant no emergency ballast blowing system is needed. if all goes to crap, she's coming up.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me to be a non-complicated conversion producing a more simple and safer boat with little or no noticeable performance differences. With the SAS if the boat accidentally rolls more than 90 deg (very unlikely but still possible) you're sunk. No problem with the Snork system. I will still have the SAS center ballast cylinder and all the equipment should I want to convert it back.

I understand the desire to make the ballast system work as close to the full scale boats as possible, and that is great and a fun technical challenge, but it adds complexity and reduces reliability. As a first time submariner, I want a boat as simple, reliable,and trouble-free as possible. If the SAS system is more simple and reliable, than I will go that way.

My humble opinions. I have no experience, so I may be all wet.

Best, John
"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into"

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

First of all, Thanks David for the information, I will put it to use. I was thinking of using a two channel input and dual output 20A ESC. That way I can run the two motors off one output and the pump motor off the other.

Next: Oh Oh! I had better smell my shoes. Have I stepped in it?

I may still use the SAS, but my thinking on the SNORK system is that a simpler system will have fewer fail points and require less tweaking than a more complex system. I will be eliminating a servo, vent valve, snorkel valve, safety float valve, replace the center ballast cylinder with one that has only two small holes for the vent at top and pumped water inlet/outlet at the bottom and cover the vent valve push rod seal in the aft ballast bulkhead with a pieces of Flex-Seal tape. Also because the boat is positively buoyant no emergency ballast blowing system is needed. if all goes to crap, she's coming up.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me to be a non-complicated conversion producing a more simple and safer boat with little or no noticeable performance differences. With the SAS if the boat accidentally rolls more than 90 deg (very unlikely but still possible) you're sunk. No problem with the Snork system. I will still have the SAS center ballast cylinder and all the equipment should I want to convert it back.

I understand the desire to make the ballast system work as close to the full scale boats as possible, and that is great and a fun technical challenge, but it adds complexity and reduces reliability. As a first time submariner, I want a boat as simple, reliable,and trouble-free as possible. If the SAS system is more simple and reliable, than I will go that way.

My humble opinions. I have no experience, so I may be all wet.

Best, John
"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into"

LOL. My feigned outrage and hurt feeling were just a means of pulling your chain. Mission accomplished!

Your rational is sound, and the exercise of conversion will serve you well as you get more involved with the workings of a WTC. Go get 'em, Tiger.

And I'm here to assist any way I can. Get to it!

David
The Horrible

[rwtdiver]

LOL. My feigned outrage and hurt feeling were just a means of pulling your chain. Mission accomplished!

Your rational is sound, and the exercise of conversion will serve you well as you get more involved with the workings of a WTC. Go get 'em, Tiger.

And I'm here to assist any way I can. Get to it!

David
The Horrible

John,

Welcome to the forum and the hobby! I see you have met the man. The guys on this forum do not cut you any slack! So, get ready!

BUT! When you need help, they are here to help you out. You will not meet or find a finer bunch of guys than those in this hobby and on this forum! And when it's help you need Mr. David (The Horrible) will be the first to assist you. Welcome to this wonderful hobby! You might also consider joining the DIVE TRIBE!

Rob
"Firemen can stand the heat"

[Mooneyjock]

Well Hagar err David, you got me my friend! I should have known better, than to feel I needed to justify myself. I have read enough of your voluminous vitriolic postings to know that you treat all of us Swabbies the same. I guess that's what is to be expected from a diver with nitrogen narcosis. I don't know how Helga puts up with you?

I don't have my SubDriver yet. A friend picked it up in PA for me after the auction. We will be getting together in March for a model airplane event, and I will pick it up then. I want to have it completed and tested before I begin hacking away at the Gato kit. I will share my trials and tribulations with the forum as I stumble along. Hopefully, with everyone's help, I will have my first r/c sub in the water by this summer.
Something I have always wanted to do since I first built my rubber powered Nautilus umpteen years ago.

All of you guy's are great! See you at the next Dive Tribe meeting.

John
"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into".

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Well Hagar err David, you got me my friend! I should have known better, than to feel I needed to justify myself. I have read enough of your voluminous vitriolic postings to know that you treat all of us Swabbies the same. I guess that's what is to be expected from a diver with nitrogen narcosis. I don't know how Helga puts up with you?

I don't have my SubDriver yet. A friend picked it up in PA for me after the auction. We will be getting together in March for a model airplane event, and I will pick it up then. I want to have it completed and tested before I begin hacking away at the Gato kit. I will share my trials and tribulations with the forum as I stumble along. Hopefully, with everyone's help, I will have my first r/c sub in the water by this summer.
Something I have always wanted to do since I first built my rubber powered Nautilus umpteen years ago.

All of you guy's are great! See you at the next Dive Tribe meeting.

John
"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into".

As a kid I flew competitive free-flight, mostly in the rubber events: Coupe d'Hiver and Unlimited. Did four AMA Nationals in the 60's when the Navy sponsored those events at air-stations throughout the Nation.

In one of the model magazines I collected during my Junior High-School days (r/c was not the end-all-be-all it is today) there was a picture of a rather large GATO/BALAO model submarine that was rubber powered that captivated my interest. Other than the blurb that accompanied the photo, there was no further amplification on the model or the guy who built it (these were the days when guys actually BUILT their models). Was that you?

David

[type7]

Hope you do some testing before you start hacking up the sub-driver. At 2 1/2" there is very little room for the equipment you mentioned and I think you will be disappointed in the performance. I'd add a gas conversion if pure efficiency is the goal. Open up the Gato so you can use a 3" cylinder and then you can have a pump system with decent performance. Don't use a peristaltic pump, it will run so slow it will be hard to tell it is even working.

[Mooneyjock]

I have been flying R/C since 1960, gliders, free flight and u-control since I was 6 or 7. I think I remember also seeing the photo of the sub you describe. No it was not mine. The sub I built came from a Scientific Models kit. It was one of the first models that I built by myself without my Dad's assistance.That was around 1954. I recently found one of the kits. Here are some photos.


The sub kit was designed by Walter Musciano and worked amazingly well.

John
"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Wow! You go back to when dinosaurs still ruled the Earth. Man. Those were the days when one actually BUILT a kit. I doff my hat to you, sir.

David

[Mooneyjock]

David,

I'm aghast and honored at the same time!
You are right, so many people today that enjoy this hobby, have no concept of the joy and pride of ownership that comes from operating a model that they built piece by piece. For me flying is 40% of the enjoyment, and building is 60%.

Hi Type 7, Hopefully, if I do this right, I will have less equipment stuffed into that 2 1/2" tube than there already is.

John

"Now here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."