USS Scorpion

[Davjacva]

when did the navy stop painting numbers and names on the boats?

Operational submarines only had the numbers displayed during initial sea trials and ceremonies so everyone can get their photos, after that they're blacked out. I'm pretty sure this was during WWII, but not sure. I would highly think they wouldn't have their numbers displayed. Submarines are incredibly difficult to see even when you know they're there. Prior to commissioning, like Merriman was talking about with the welded on hull number. After commissioning, these got ground down, so afterward, it was an in-exact science as to how big or where the numbers were placed on the sail (You'd not see them on the sides of the bow anymore), and it was usually cut-out white placards taped down, but sometimes you'd see them painted. This is absolutely not a stupid question, as on my first sub I asked our COB (had 34 years in since the early 50's) and our Weps Master Chief (28 years since the early 60's) and neither of them could answer this same question.

Every boat I was on had a portable placard made of some high-grade wood like teak that hung on the side of the sub while in port. It's supposed to be treated with Tung oil, but the sub's manufacturer would supply it with a plastic coating which had to come off for obvious reasons. Additionally, you would also have a banner with the hull number and ship's name and symbol on it for the brow. It sucked royally if the sub didn't have the banner on the brow back in the day. We had 34 subs in Norfolk and I was usually on about 3-4 a day and they were parked on four 1000ft piers. If you couldn't tell 688's apart, you'd do a lot of walking.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

That was something that happened in the early 70's. Kept the bad guys from knowing who was in port and who was gone. The numbers inport didn't come back until around 1990-ish. By then when used, the numbers were some kind of portable thing, like giant 'fridge magnets, that didn't require actual painting. You had to be careful how they were stored while underway, as they would lose their stick and be useless the next time around. Fun stuff!!! That's also why a lot of photos have the numbers in the wrong location on the sail.

Not only that. A directive came from God-knows-where to the Fleets boats to not only omit the hull numbers, but to also grind flush all the weld 'cheat marks' that told ships company were to paint the white hull numbers and boats name (at the stern)!

Satellite imagery is that good?????? Anyway, as a leading seaman, which made me a deck slave, I was glad to have that particular painting chore done away with.

David

[wlambing]

That was something that happened in the early 70's. Kept the bad guys from knowing who was in port and who was gone. The numbers inport didn't come back until around 1990-ish. By then when used, the numbers were some kind of portable thing, like giant 'fridge magnets, that didn't require actual painting. You had to be careful how they were stored while underway, as they would lose their stick and be useless the next time around. Fun stuff!!! That's also why a lot of photos have the numbers in the wrong location on the sail.

[BWRIGHT]

when did the navy stop painting numbers and names on the boats?

[BWRIGHT]

Really nice paint match. Which paint and colors did you use?

[trout]

Casey, that is some great painting and color matching. I like it!

[Das Boot]

The real and mine. Colors are close.

[BWRIGHT]

thanks. When the scorpion went from 5 bladed props to 7 bladed props did the diameter stay the same?

[wlambing]

Yep, you're right! For a while in the 60's, there was a paint scheme where all verticals, including upper hull forward of engine exhaust (or aft hatch on nukes), angled forward were painted Ocean Gray, and all horizontals were basically Flat Black (really a dark Charcoal Gray, think charcoal gray hot rod primer). We used to call it "the Pacific Paint job". Everything went all black in the early 70's.

[CC Clarke]

Added HF dome for clarity while my previous post is moderated. . .

[CC Clarke]

There were all kinds of things getting tried out in the 50's and 60's, just as is still the case. Everybody carries a sail mounted "baby" shark tooth, a bow mounted one and a keel mounted WLR-9 nowadays, if one is missing from one of those locations, it may be incorporated into something else, or they got something better and hid it inside another array. In the case of the Skipjack's, it may be a simple as the picture got taken before the mount was installed, or the CO said no. In those days they could still do that.

WLR-9 was superceded over two decades ago by the WLR-12 and later the WLR-17. All versions contained two low freq hydrophones in fiberglass fairings; top and bottom of bow. The HF spectrum is monitored by another pair of hydrophones mounted on top of the sail and keel as in previous versions. Inside, the main control unit is in sonar with a remote located in the control room. Great system, especially when navigating through air-dropped buoy fields. Each type of detected signal was characterized by a distinctive alarm, with the torpedo detect alarm being the most distinctive. Maneuvering within a CAPTOR field was downright scary since they're bottom moored and the weapon shoots upwards making evasion unlikely with little to no warning.

CCC

[BWRIGHT]

it also appears that side of the sail is a different color then the hull.

[wlambing]

There were all kinds of things getting tried out in the 50's and 60's, just as is still the case. Everybody carries a sail mounted "baby" shark tooth, a bow mounted one and a keel mounted WLR-9 nowadays, if one is missing from one of those locations, it may be incorporated into something else, or they got something better and hid it inside another array. In the case of the Skipjack's, it may be a simple as the picture got taken before the mount was installed, or the CO said no. In those days they could still do that.

[Albacore 569]

The bow on top sonar receiver is a AN/WLR-9 Sonar Warning receiver. It is common on all American SSN/SSBN's , and is also in other forms with their own indigenous models of the same type and purpose on most or all NATO submarines too. British SSN/SSBN's, Dutch, (& Japanese) & is located in the same general area on the top bow of the boat. (as Wlambing answered).

I did not answer yesterday as I intended to because I was stuck on the apparent sonar on Scorpion's sail top leading edge. I expect it is a warning sonar of similar purpose of some kind. I was searching through the highly detailed exhaustive "U.S. Submarines Since 1945: An Illustrated Design History" by the great Norman Friedman with illustrations by James (Jim) Christley. It describes most sonars on American boats but didn't see a reference to that particular one yet. I am sure another out there can identify it. It seems particularly unique to that boat. Maybe its a high frequency high resolution mine detection active sonar?

The Scorpion is shown in one of her very last photo's of her wearing an Atlantic two tone camouflage. Black/dark gray near to black hull, and a dark /medium gray sail. with black sprayed sail top. The Pacific Fleet submarines had a similar scheme then at that time but it had a more blue tint to the gray sail color. The different color tones between the operating areas are indistinguishable in B&W photos, but noticeable in color.

Steve

[BWRIGHT]

Thanks. Were these peculiar to Scorpion? I see the one on the bow on other skipjack class boats but not the one on the sail.