Mike and I Are Producing a New Sub Kit

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Andy is correct on both counts, Scott: Esoteric subjects don't sell, and the process involves robust, well engineered tooling.

This will not be a you-kill-it-we-cook-it type operation, Scott. Part fabrication will not drape hot plastic over a puck/buck/plug/positive/pattern/form (so, so many terms for the same thing bantered about over the years) to produce the vacuformed parts -- we'll be using a proper female mold. That type tool not only captures the true, uniform external geometry of the subject, but also is capable of capturing the detailing imparted on the surface of the master, providing there is shallow right-angle draft and no negative draft.

And, as Andy pointed out, the forces are high: the inverse square law applies to the process -- for a given differential pressure, increasing the area of the work one unit and you've increased, by a factor of four, the total pressure applied to the tool. I've crushed poorly designed tools. Add to that dose of reality the considerable heat captured by a puck or mold during a production run and you find that unless you either chose the right material or provided regenerative cooling, the puck or tool will fail.

Any dope can heat-form a thermoplastic to assume a shape. Only an expert can produce the tool that will survive industrial use.

This means creation of a detailed master (my strong suit), then creation of a metal filled resin tool (another specialty of mine) into which the hot plastic sheet will be pulled.

Bottom line: Vacuforming is a quick and cheap process. However the machine (and we ain't talking Mom's kitchen oven here!) is terribly expensive (a proper production machine like the one Mike just purchased and got working, to the amazement of his crew); the tools are labor intensive and require a skilled hand to design and fabricate; and the finished parts require exceptional skill on the part of the customer to trim out and fit. The payoff to the initial expense of the infrastructure --vacuforming machine, masters, tools, production training, etc. -- is the ability to produce pieces from cheap material, with minimal labor (skill level is low and cycle time is quick), and the ability to produce hundreds of units per day with little machine or tool depreciation.

[Subculture]

They have an M1 already- how many have you sold, one maybe two? Waste of time building stuff like that if you're after a volume seller, and if you're vac-forming I would think that is exactly what you're aiming for.

You also need to build in a specific way for a vac form tool, or make an intermediate mould and cast from that, because of the forces involved, which are considerable. No use making a flimsy foam and filler model and expecting that to take the pressure of the process.

[Scott T]

How about a contest! Build a model buck to be vacformed and send it in to Caswell for a one time
try. How much does a sheet of plastic cost? It could be the entry fee cost and defray some of the
cost. Model must have room for such and such subdriver.

How about a vacform of a waterline model of X-1, M-1, ... You know the ones with big guns on deck.

How about a steampunk model with many rivets.

You know most of us are cheap model collectors. Make the brand line "Offscale Models"! (if the name is available)
"Get your New-and-improved Offscale Astute submarine model!"

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Just a quick note of thanks to all you bums -- really good stuff here. Much appreciated. Stay tuned.

David

[Subculture]

That site has been up for a few years. it's a nice little Delphin, but quite a few details are out. Depends how fussy you are I guess.

[greenman407]

Heres a guy , John Parker, who has made one. Perhaps we could contact him.

http://graysubs.tripod.com/jparker/submarine_models_built_by_john_p.htm

[greenman407]

This is all I have been able to come up with.

http://uboat.net/types/delphin.htm

[Subculture]

The Russian Mikro-mir 1/35th Delphin kit shows a torpedo slung underneath, but I've seen no information to suggest that this was tried on the original. It would have seriously compromised the hydrodynamics I think. Rossler's book claims a towed mine was tried.

The original boat was a dynamic diver, although a small trim tank mounted underneath the driver (pilot?) was incorporated to address the issue of the shifting centre of bouyancy that the offset acrylic bubble created once the boat dived.

Delphin needs minimal power to get to scale speed being close to ideal in hydrodynamic termas. An admiralty constant of cb 210 was measured for the protoype, compare that with a Seehund at cb 70 (lower still with torpedoes fitted)

[roedj]

Never understood the Delfin. Was it supposed to carry an external torpedo?

Anyway, the Delfin as built by Norbert Brüggen was very simple. No ballast system - dynamic diver. Single propeller - at least the ones I saw at the Carmel pool. Opened and closed with a bayonet ring system. And fast -- very fast. The first thing to beak off was the schnorkel tube sticking out of the top - generally in collisions with other ships or the side of the pool because controlling thie thing at the speeds it traveled was nigh on impossible unless you were raised with a Nintendo game controller in your hand - I wasn't.


Subcuture, IMHO, has the right idea - design your own. Don't make it a "rivet counter" special. Make it about 18" long - dynamic diver only - no ballast system - super positively buoyant - hard to lose in the pond, lake, etc. Let the customers paint it any color they want. Matt Munger attaches one of those glow sticks to his and runs it around the Carmel pool at night - visually exciting - great fun - a real crowd pleaser.

My two pfennigs worth,

Dan

[redboat219]

How about doing a vacuform RCable kit of your 1/192 Sturgeon and LA class.
http://www.steelnavy.com/images/2007...URGEON5khV.jpg

[Subculture]

Always thought it was a paradox that Holland's designs ended up being the first adopted by the Royal navy. Probably polished him off!

[vital.spark]

Here's another one, the Fenian Ram. This one's great for Mike as Holland built it to attack the British!! It still exists as you will see at the following:

http://www.williammaloney.com/Aviation/FenianRam/index.html

[trout]

Since others have produced the Delphin, why not try this?


And the X-1 is at the Groton Submarine Museum. Simple design might be an easy pull.
Or go with a sportsman version of the Akula like this one:


You know, subculture is correct. Make up your own sub. If it is a beginner sub, then design it just for that purpose. It does not have to be modeled after a real sub. In some ways, not being modeled off of a real sub frees you from the comments about this or that is incorrect or not accurate. Call it USS Ellie, LOL.

[Subculture]

1/24th scale Delphin hull spun up from a bit of hazelnut. Appendages under construction. The line you can see almost in the middle was turned in, and will be the split point fior the hull, as per the original. An aluminium bayonet ring will be machined and bonded in at that point.

[Subculture]

The French plans are the best reference to date for this boat, but still there seems to be some discrepency around the hatch area when you compare with the photos of the prototype.

AFAIK, there were three boats built, the original, which was scrapped after a collision with a test vessel, and two others which were dynamited to prevent them falling into enemy hands. So it's a difficult craft to get information on.