Recent uboat pictures

[greenman407]

[Von Hilde]

good pic of the hai's HG sonar under the bow, in the sling, at the splash, and in the drydock with the snow on her

[greenman407]

[Von Hilde]

I believe you may be confused. Redboat simply asked if he should include the decks on a model depicting war patrol configuration. Answer is no because they were removed from all the war patrol boats. All 61 of the commissioned boats had the deck mounts installed at the factory. These "dotted lines" or" containment framework" as you call them are simply steel tabs with fastener mounting holes cut in them. They were welded to the pressure hull on all the XXIIIs. The 13 early production boats from Kiel were initally equipped the wood decks, since they were still getting the hardwood from the German held S Africa sources. There was no room aboard for stowage so the decks remained ashore and were installed for servicing the boat or cerimonial operation. The 6 boats that actually made war patrols were some the few built in Kiel by the way. The 61 that were assembled in Hamburg were built at remote instalations in sections and sent to Hamburg by rail for assembly. By this time in the war the wood source had been cut off by the Allies and the decks that were already built were utilised by the boats comming out of Hamburg. (one size fits all) I only mentioned hydrodynamics as (one) of the main features of the boats. Actually there were many besides the Walter propulsion system. I would say the 9 second crash dive would be right up top, of course except for the one drawback was it would keep on going unless the planesmen were on their toes. Being faster underwater than up top was a big feature, as well as the "Muffler" that was stuck on the back. The big downside of the XXIII was 2 shots, no spare torpedos and, in port. external loading only. They had to lift the bow out of the water with a crane to stick the torpedos in. Only a 200 n.mile range submerged kept them operationally close. As for the Hai and Hecht's DKM wartime activity,it was nul and short, U2367 (hecht) was sunk after a collision with another u boat during training, May 5 1945 and the U2365 (hai)was scuttled intact on May 8 45. They were both raised in 1956 and re commissioned in the DBM in 1957, as Hai and Hecht. After that all bets are off about deck configguration or sonar arrangement

[Warpatroller]

One of the main features of the XXIII was the hydrodynamic sparseness of the foredeck. Those wood decks were removed after training. Only the first few boats had them at all, and they were built in Kiel. They built the majority of the XXIIIs in Hamburg, because of the alied bombing at the Kiel plant. Hamburg boats were shipped by rail from off site assembly plants to launching sites and most of those boats didnt have the decks installed. Of the 61 boats commissioned only 6 went operational. U 2321( the first built)2322,2324,2326,2329,2336. They managed to sink 5 ships. Apparrently the model kit design guys do what they usually do and used photos of a boat with a deck, since very little propagand pictures were being taken durung the war , by the time the XXIIIs went operational. They most likely used good resolution pics from construction and commissioning cerimonies, to detail the kit, and made a genaric boat and stuck a deck on it. I see none of the models available have the (Balconey) bow with the acustic transducer, and Im sure the 6 ops boats did. That might be a good detail to add to an operational boat model. Incidently, the U 2336 was the last boat to sink a ship in the Battle of the Atlantic on May 7 1945 and none of the 6 were damaged during war patrols.

I have to call you out on some of the XXIII info you posted here. Firstly, the revolutionary and most prominent feature of the XXIII was its single hull design. The 23 was the first operational U-Boat to have a Uni-hull. Where the pressure hull and outer hull are combined as one. All prior boats had separate inner pressure hulls surrounded by an outer hull with water free flooding between them.

In addition, the entire hull was designed to be hydrodynamic in shape. The boat was a derivative of the Hellmuth Walter hydrogen-peroxide powered prototype and concept boats.

Those wood decks were removed after training. Only the first few boats had them at all, and they were built in Kiel.

This is an incorrect statement. The wooden deck planking was a standard feature of the type XXIII. This is not a feature that was only applied to early boats and it was not a feature that was only applied to boats built at Germaniawerft in Kiel.

The planking is made up of two main components. There are, of course, the five parallel sets of wooden planks. Next is a metal perimeter containment framework, welded to the top of the hull that surrounds and contains these wooden planks. On almost all XXIII photos, you will see this containment framework intact on the top of the hull. Granted, often times, the wooden planks themselves are missing and have been removed, but the containment frame is still there. In some cases this framework is a solid perimeter and other cases it is a dashed, broken line, perimeter.

The planking was intended to provide better footing for the sailors especially when carrying supplies on and off of the boat at port. The wooden planks themselves being removed prior to setting sail on patrol. Would the planking have been installed on all boats at all times while in port? No. But that was the intent that they would be.

There is photographic evidence that boats were built with wooden planking all the way up through final production in April 45. There is also multiple photographic evidence that this planking was used on the Hai and Hecht after the war. In particular among these, is a photograph of the Hecht, taken in the summer of 1960, that shows the full wooden planking installed on the hull.

Furthermore, both U2365 and U2367 (Hai and Hecht) were laid down in December 1944 and launched in late January / early February 1945. Both boats were built with the wooden deck planking and both boats were built at Deutchewerft in Hamburg.

Bronco’s inclusion of the deck planking was a valid detail to add to their kit. They just didn’t quite get the look of it correct. Though the addition of it was a good thing, rather than not having it at all.

The photo posted earlier in this thread, by Greenman, shows the containment framework for the planking intact on the top of the XXIII hull.

Trout pointed out that the Sonar installation on the top of the bow was a post war addition to the Hai and Hecht only. In contrast, the Balkongerat hydrophone array, passive listening system, was installed on all XXIII boats during the war. Two different housing designs were used for this array.

[Von Hilde]

Hai and Hecht, early post war picture. as you can see by the new numbers, appear not yet to have the sonar bows.but you are right about the sonar on the s170 bow picture above. Its a late post war picture. I had assummed that the pictures I had seen of the post war bow were durnig the war, and had read about the addition of the new Gerat sonar to the active patrol boats in early 1945. The words,"Balkon sonar" were mentioned by Axle Nestlie (U boat historian) as referring to the fairing that covered the bow mounted transdeucer. I think that is why I has assummed that when Axle said "Balkon-Gerat" I pictured in my mind "balconey" and had thought, something above the waterline. Balkon sonar was several microphones mounted in a round fairing with multi directional radials. This gave the ability to measure a targets range and heading by more accurate triangulation. Axle is German and speaks english well, but I think some information was lost in translation. (Thats how wars get started, sometimes) The Bundsmarine raised U-2365 and 2367 in 1956 and re commissoned in 57' U-Hai, 170 was in DBM service from 1957-1966. During that time I think there may have been several modifications. She went down in a storm in 66 with 19 hands aboard and one survivor.

[trout]

I see none of the models available have the (Balconey) bow with the acustic transducer, and Im sure the 6 ops boats did. That might be a good detail to add to an operational boat model. 2324 [ATTACH=CONFIG]22457[/ATTACH]sonar balconey bow

The sonar you are mentioning, I do not see on war time Type XXIII. I see these on the Hai and Hecht (S-170 and S-171). The picture you show here is also credited to being the Hai early in her risen state.

[Von Hilde]

I dont know how the elektroboat pic got attached on the end. Tried to edit it out but it just has a mind of its own

[greenman407]

Thanks Vonhilde, you help add names to faces that fills in the gaps.

[Von Hilde]

One of the main features of the XXIII was the hydrodynamic sparseness of the foredeck. Those wood decks were removed after training. Only the first few boats had them at all, and they were built in Kiel. They built the majority of the XXIIIs in Hamburg, because of the alied bombing at the Kiel plant. Hamburg boats were shipped by rail from off site assembly plants to launching sites and most of those boats didnt have the decks installed. Of the 61 boats commissioned only 6 went operational. U 2321( the first built)2322,2324,2326,2329,2336. They managed to sink 5 ships. Apparrently the model kit design guys do what they usually do and used photos of a boat with a deck, since very little propagand pictures were being taken durung the war , by the time the XXIIIs went operational. They most likely used good resolution pics from construction and commissioning cerimonies, to detail the kit, and made a genaric boat and stuck a deck on it. I see none of the models available have the (Balconey) bow with the acustic transducer, and Im sure the 6 ops boats did. That might be a good detail to add to an operational boat model. Incidently, the U 2336 was the last boat to sink a ship in the Battle of the Atlantic on May 7 1945 and none of the 6 were damaged during war patrols. However 7 other XXIIIs were lost during traiing from various accidents and alied attacks u 2321 still in training flotilla note: no wood decks 2326 and u? at surrender 2329 2324 sonar balconey bow

[greenman407]

Ill bet ya that those are removed before going out on patrol and then reinstalled when it comes back. Wood doesnt hold up to well under combat conditions. Which is what you alluded to. Just a guess on my part.

[modelnut]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22430[/ATTACH]

Hey! Where are the deck plates or whatever they are called? I don't think I have ever seen any model of a XXIII without the wooden walkways on top.

I note that the picture is called "uboottipoxxiiiiperativo". So this is a picture of an actual XXIII that is in commission and in the fight. Were the deck plates just for training? Would a XXIII on the hunt have them removed as this one has?

I have a few XXIII's of various scales. I would like to depict at least some of them as they would have appeared out of port and on patrol.

- Leelan

[greenman407]

[greenman407]

[greenman407]

U118 Type XB Minelayer. Look at the good detail of the deck and the hatches. Cool!Color! Look at the difference in the beam from the type VII to the type IX