New 1/144 Revell sub kit r/c conversion packages for 2010

[Outrider]

How do you really feel, David? ; )

Are you getting the urge to see yourself in pink again?

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion. I've observed the same trends at my LHS, where nobody seems ready to build their own heli. There's some hope, though. Most of the RTF/RTR stuff tends to be on the low end of the quality scale. Want something better? You'll turn a wrench eventually.

Is the 214 getting underway soon? Everything seems to be coming together nicely.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Should have the little beast in the water, trimmed, and off to you soon. I'm playing hooky today and have been working on it.

Oh ... one thing you forgot (maybe I didn't tell you) to get to me was the Lipo-Guard. Other than that every thing is in hand.

David,

[T. Schulte]

It's not just R/C subs and Helis. I have an extensive collection of H.O. model rr equipment. I model a specific railroad and count rivets. The hobby has gone from a wide assortment of craftsman kits and scratch build supplies to " out of the box and onto the layout" type items. All very nicely painted and detailed in CHINA or some other far away land. Also very expensive. Seems like they're targeting a market of doctors and lawyers who want to impress there kids at Christmas but don't possess the skill or smarts to take the time to bond with their sons and daughters. That's OK, society will raise their children for them. T.S.

[redboat219]

I wonder if this could be used in making small scale bronze propeller? I came across a craft book about using Metal Clay to make fine jewelry sculptures, etc - basically it's composed of small particles of metal like gold silver or bronze mixed with and organic binder and water which can be pinched, rolled, extruded and molded. Firing in a kiln or even using a handheld butane torch burns off the binder and sinters the metal articles together.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_Metal_Clay

http://www.bronzclay.com/bronzclay.htm

you could make a propeller mold and press Metal clay into it, take it out and fire it and viola - bronze props!

[roedj]

RTR - the case for....

To All,

OK, so I know this is a bit off topic but indulge me anyway please.

I've heard this complaint about no craftsmen anymore in every hobby I've ever been involved with from Ham radio (over 50 years) to modeling trains to boats to planes. Respectfully, I must submit it's a lot of Merde de Toro. Here's why:

1) In order to sell someone a "craftsman" kit they, more than likely, are already in the hobby and want to expand their skills, and

2) It's very hard to sell to someone IN the hobby if you don't first get them INTO the hobby. RTR is the most productive way to do that, IMHO. I am just now starting to build submarines because a) I like boats and b) I've been building surface boats for years and am looking for more of an engineering challenge. How did I get into surface boats, you ask? A older cousin of mine grew tired of a particular boat he had and seeing my interest and envy gave it to me, RTR. It's been downhill ever since - LOL.

And now for some totally unsolicited and probably ignored business advice. You want to expand your business Mike/David, come up with a RTR kit, maybe it just needs painting, and go from there. Hook 'em with that and then reel 'em in.

Just my 2 pfennigs worth,

Dan

[Kazzer]

The major problem with this idea is that building an RTR boat is labor intensive and we simply do not have enough elves in the cave, nor do we wish to employ any. (They're mutinous little so 'n so's) Its a catch 22 situation.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Agreed. We simply don't have the industrial resources or capital to design and manufacture RTR's.

David,

[Outrider]

He's back...and without the pink shorts!

I can understand the issue of elf management. It's a sensible position to take. Also, RTR has a support back-end that's probably disenchanting as well. My sense is that you'd want your market to have plenty of self-reliance. Cuts down on the noise...and the phone calls.

I think the compromise between RTR and a "craftsman kit" is to stick to something that is easily converted into R/C and requires the minimum amount of supplies and equipment to do it. As we're all aware, price matters, too. Realizing that RTR isn't in the cards, entry-level still means (IMHO) under $500 and something between a one day and a one weekend build--shorter being, for these purposes, better. Hopefully, the Type-214 will meet these criteria. It should be fast and maneuverable, easily put together, easily serviced, and easily stored. It should work fine in anything from a kiddie pool to an Olympic pool. So people should have a wide range of options as far as actually getting underway.

I suppose the open question is whether enough people find this particular model appealing. My guess is that many customers have a strong preference for WWII subjects. My fear is that too many with that bias wouldn't give something modern a fair shot. Still, I hope enough people can be persuaded to give the Type-214 a try. I'm hopeful David will report good luck with Type-214 operations. That would, at least in this forum, get the ball rolling.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Almost done with the 214 project. No way we can get the total cost to the customer below $1,000. And it is not a simple 1-5 day assembly job.

I've taken the fittings kits and SubDrivers (from a user friendly standpoint) just as far as my skills, education, and facilities permit. The product either sells (I continue with the work) or it does not (I find work at Walmart). Reality check.

David,

[Kazzer]

And I guess all this revolves around the concept of bringing more people into the hobby. I had this discussion on another forum and it fell on stony ground. RTR's won't necessarily bring people in unless a massive advertising campaign is launched. The return on such a promotion, I can assure you, is pitiful. I suggested using an existing periodical submarine publication, marketing and distributing that properly, but there were several (with no evidence to substantiate anything) who disagreed. Thankfully, I don't have to work with committees, preferring my dictatorship here, so I gave up on beating my head against that brick wall. I have found Caswell's best return on advertising investment has been in our own banner ads, and those we pay a monthly fee for on RCGroups. Mind you, many small submarine businesses would hurt really badly if they had to pay that bill every month. I am fortunate that this comes out of our general advertising budget. Unfortunately, none of this gets out 'into the streets' and drags people into our lair.

Caswell Inc's website has a daily hit rate of many thousands, and since we have been selling submarines, we have 'spread the word' fairly effectively, bringing in a reasonable number (but insufficient) of new customers that would not otherwise have been introduced to the hobby. It's difficult to determine how effective this is, but I'm confident in saying it works better than any regatta or hobby show attendance.

Breaking through the sales barrier of getting these 'toys' selling like Action Man is highly unlikely, and that means mass production to reduce costs is also unlikely. What I think is really our best bet is to promote the hobby between ourselves, and ensure that when a 'newbie' does join us, he is given all the encouragement and technical support to ensure his project is completed, in the water, and not left collecting dust as it lingers forgotten on some dusty garage shelf.

I've tried to keep this forum short on chatter and 'smileys' (The Wizard's pet hate), high on technical documents and support, open and FREE of fees, and that is a big draw to the hobby, (and to those tired of club and forum fees.) We have an excellent crew here and it grows daily, but we are many miles away from RTR and mass production.

No Walmart for you pal. Just get back to work on those torpedoes! You'll be busy for months on just that. Then there's 1:36 scale to start over on.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Work continues on the 1/144 Type-214.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

... You'll be busy for months on just that. Then there's 1:36 scale to start over on.

OK, boss.

David,

[Outrider]

David, nice to see you back without the exotic attire... If things go awry, though, the pink shorts might be a good conversation starter for a budding Walmart greeter...

People navigate by the North Star without expecting to actually get there, just close enough for their own purposes. Even if sub-$500 and RTR are nothing but a pipe dream, your efforts to simplify are bearing fruit.

I just priced out the 1:232 Skipjack from Caswell. It's about $150 for the Revell kit, D&E fittings, and the SD kit. The rest of the electronics are about $300. I know the static diving Type-214 is more sophisticated than the dynamic diving Skipjack, so it will logically cost more. My guess is that it would be similar in pricing to the 2.0 inch driver for the Kilo, which is also a static diver. (I should not guess in public about final pricing, especially when I know there are significant gaps in what I know about what costs must be covered. However, even though you and Mike may hoist the Jolly Roger, I've never felt gouged. I'm sure the final price will be fair value for goods and services offered.) And though it's way too early to be certain, I suspect that the extra money spent on a Type-214 is going to seem well worth it. Based on what you've posted, the Type-214 looks spectacular.

The best thing to focus on may be on making it easier to put kits together. Kits like the Trumpeter Kilo are a great choice--doesn't even need a Z-cut. Wonder of wonders, that's the kit you recommend as a starter. You also recommend keeping sail & bow dive planes fixed in some cases. Seems to me like you're doing all the right things. If only we'd listen...

My guess is the only way to further simplify is to stuff a SubDriver into something that's already been built (likely to involve elves, since there doesn't seem to be an existing source of suitable hulls just sitting around waiting to get mobile). Since reality points to existing unassembled polystyrene kits as the best opportunity to get people started with a good product at a fair price--keep taking it. There will be plenty of us along for the ride.

JFC

[Kazzer]

Work continues on the 1/144 Type-214.

WOT? No gas - and no bladder either? Cor! That must appeal to both sides of the fence! There's motive for a new signature there.

[redboat219]

Check out this RC conversion of the Revell Type 214 done by a Japanese modeler. Utilizes a dry hull instead of a WTC and uses a small gas ballast system. Hmmm. I wonder how well the model's plastic hull resists water pressure and up to what's it's operational depth rating.

http://www.excite-webtl.jp/world/english/web/body/?wb_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rc-blueworld.com%2Fdockyard%2F144%2Fuboat214%2Fuboat214_01.html&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2