DeBoer Seaview

[LOFTDRIVER]

The Beast is back

Sorry for the delay in posting more but my workshop was invaded by giant wasps and also needed a sort out.One thing that came up during the fist sea trials was a large leak in the aft compartment.As I was taking the photos for this site the back end was slowly filling with water.This has now been fixed.The water tight compartments for this beast are my own design and build.There are three compartments in the boat two are removible and the aft one is built into the back end.This houses the drrive motors and servoes for the rudder and rear dive nozzlez.Yes you did read that write nozzles.I will leave you in suspense on that one .The photos are of the water tight compartments.
more later
Loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

The beast is back

To carry on from the last time I will go into the drive for this model.The count less failliers to get this monster of the deep to move are many .The solution is the system that I will show you now .The propulsion tubes have been sleeved down to take a tube that is a good fit for a 45 size four bladed kort drive prob(the photos will explain more).This system has worked well.I was not going for a speed demon here but something that would look impressive and statley.The tubes were made from old used silicone gun tubes ,the type you use for bathroom sealing.These are held in place with plastic ring spacers and 24 hour two part epoxyed into place.This was then smothed over with milliput.The tubes are 4inches in length and finish 65mm from the end of the propusion duct ends.On the end of this is mounted a jet nozzle .Enjoy the photos.
More to follow
Loftdriver out

[LOFTDRIVER]

The beast is back

One of the Questions that was asked a few post,s back was what size motors to use and the size of Tank for this monster of the deep.The motors fitted to my model are low drain high reviving 540 types.The motors are running of there own 12volt system to make sure that they are getting the full six volts to work.I will explain. If you attach two six volt motors to a six volt battry they are not getting the full power out of the battry .Try it and you will see what I mean,as soon as you take one motor of the other motor spins faster.The ballast system has its own 6 volt system and the r/c gear has its own battery power.A lot of redundancey here but past experiance has shown that r/c subs get lost from to many things running of one battery .For an example go and see a r/c buggy race.When the battery goes flat on a buggy the motor takes all the juice and leaves you with no controll .Ok on buggy but not with over One grandes worth of model sub.The other question was what size tank will need to be fitted.I did some testing on my own model and came up with a three litre tank.My solution a system to do the job is being thught out as I type this but does not include a gas system.More latter.
Loftdriver out

[Kazzer]

The motors are running of there own 12volt system to make sure that they are getting the full six volts to work.I will explain. If you attach two six volt motors to a six volt battry they are not getting the full power out of the battry .
Loftdriver out

Doesn't that depend on how you wire the motors up? It sounds like you've wired two 6 volt motors together in SERIES to a 6 v power supply. If you wired them up in parallel, then I would have thought they would run at full speed. By wiring them in series, they would run slower.
Why don't you supply a diagram, so we can see what you are doing?

[Subculture]

That's probably more a function of the batteries ability to supply current. Lead acid batteries in particular can only supply a few amps before the voltage droops. Nicads were better, lithium batteries are the very best. This is why folk wanting power for big models go for higher voltages 12 or 24 volts. This reduces the current draw, and helps the batteries.

A switchmode BEC coupled with a system that runs a few volts above the regulated voltage (e.g. 5volts and above) is probably the most reliable set-up for a model sub.

3 litre tank eg. Big sucker. Have you looked at those Reich and Whale pumps I mentioned to you a while back? They'll pump that volume out in about 10-15 seconds.

You could use one the engel tanks you have kicking about as a trim tank. A 500ml tank would be right on the money for your 15%.

Why not bring it along to the next Dive-in at Brockwell? Should be in March or April next year.

[LOFTDRIVER]

The Beast is back

I think I have opened a can of worms here.The motors are wired like this.positive from one motor conected to a negative of the other motor then conected to the yellow wire on my speed controller the same positive from one side of a motor and negative on the other and then to the blue wire on the speed controller.This gives me the counter rotation that I need for forwerd and reverse propulsion with left and right props.My knowledge of electrics is rarther primevil but it works for me.As for the pumps mentioned by Subculture I have not checked them out yet but will do so soon.Thank you Kazzer and Subculture for givivng me some thing else to think about.If you have any ideas on how I can improve the electrical layout of my motors I would be greatfull.thank you
Loftdriver out

[Subculture]

No problem with that set-up, you're running two 6 volt motors in series from a 12 volt load, you'll drop 6 volts across each motor, so as far as the battery is concerned, it's seeing a single 12 volt load.

[LOFTDRIVER]

The beast is back

Having shown you how the propulsion tubes are set up on my Seaview I will now show you my idea on how to get the rear dive planes to work on this creature of the deep.Before I start this method has not been tried on this model ,it is still theoretical but I think it is the only way forward for any hope of control for this model.I did look at a normal set of dive planes but soon figured that a conventional set of planes would work more like shut off dames than dive planes .Not deflecting thrust but blocking it instead.The planes are conected in the normal way as rear planes and have a deflection up and down of 15 degrees,this way the full thrust from the props can be deflected up and down as needed.
Enjoy the photos ,more to follow.
Lofdriver out.

[LOFTDRIVER]

The beast is back

Welcome back to the seaview thread and just a quick word on rudders.
The only way to have any type of rudder control is by using the now formiliaure three rudder set up this makes things easy to ste up and controll will always be positive.In my last posting a caption for the first photo is of the parts needed to build my units.on the left is the drive nozzle(bottom) and the dive plane nozzle(top) and the hole thing put together on the right.The following photo is of my rudder set up and the dive/thrust units in place.I think I need a new key board after this weekend so will post more soon.Enjoy the photos.
Loftdriver out

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You're on the right track. In the Polaris program we called those things 'jet-vators'. It'll work better than stern planes, for the reason you identified.

Excellent work. You'll have good rudder response as long as you lead-foot the throttle in the turn.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

Does any of this stern plane thinking apply to the rudders and could these jet-vators be actuated in the horizontal plane to affect turning?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Does any of this stern plane thinking apply to the rudders and could these jet-vators be actuated in the horizontal plane to affect turning?

Yup, the first and second-stage of the Polaris A-1 and A-2 had two-axis jet-vators for pitch, yaw and roll control (differential use of the four nozzles employed each stage produced the torque to roll the bird).

So, yeah ... you can use these things for yaw, but he'll need to machine a new nozzle -- it's bulged only for pitch motion from what I've seen in the shots provided.

Nice work.

You going to give this a shot, Kerry? I knew you would be panting over these shots of the big Debore SEAVIEW.

David,

[ADDINGTON]

Yes, David this is indeed great stuff as until now the Big DeBoer has been
'Seaview VI: The Undiscovered Country'
Kudos and Bravos to LOFTRIDER for, to my knowledge, the first posting of any specialized work towards practical R/C of the 80" Seaview.
I believe Professor Teskey showed us a smaller version of a two-axis nozzle he was working on at the 08 SubRegatta so what say you Rick?
-Kerry

[cummerom31]

This Seaview belongs to Alan Warehand, it is still in development, but has been run on the surface, latest ballast system is twin bellows.

[Subculture]

It's my understanding the bellows had been consigned to the round filing cabinet.