Revell Type VII Build advice

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Yes, it can be cut with a hot-wire.

David

[Avera]

Another side issue concerning the WFLY FT06-A transmitter: I was testing the SD and laid the transmitter on its back, but left on. I noticed after several minutes that the face plate was getting hot, not burning or melting, just very warm to the touch. I have never experienced this with my other transmitter. I am going to post this on the WFLY section as well.

Any thoughts????

Andrew

[H2Ohaze]

Apparently, Plasteel corp makes a distinction between Styrofoam and Smoothfoam, the former being open cell, the latter being closed cell...?

It still doubles it's weight after submergence, although this isn't a lot since the stuff is featherlight. It's actually lighter than the Formular pink stuff before it gets wet.

[H2Ohaze]

Okay. I don't relish the thought of trying to replace the foam in the Holland. Retrimming is fine, it's pasting the stuff inside the confined hull.

So is the Foamular the right stuff, or just any pink insulation foam?

Can it be cut with a hot wire?

Thank you.

EDIT: On the (white stuff) Smoothfoam website, it states that it is closed cell: http://www.plasteelcorp.com/dylitevsstyro.htm

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The white foam is open-cell type and will water-log, as you observed. Don't use it.

The pink and blue stuff is closed-cell. use it.

I have spoken! (insert crack-of-thunder sound here)

David

[H2Ohaze]

Side question on the foam: is the pink insulation foam (I found Owens-Corning "Foamular" at Home Depot) preferred over the standard white "Smoothfoam" brand available at Hobby Lobby and commonly used in packing. Hobby Lobby also has open cell stuff that's like a sponge; I don't mean that.

Reason I ask is I just finished my RPMtech Holland with lots of the Smoothfoam stuffed in it, and after 1/2 hour surfaced trim looked a little lower (1/4 inch) in water. Getting the foam in and out of that hull is a pain, have to have small hands.

Before gluing the halves of the VIIC together, I thought I would pre-shape the saddle tank foam as a first draft at it. So this is why I also ask at this time in my build.

Also, if I do have the right foam with the Foamular, it comes with the sides coated with a thin plastic covering which can be removed. I'm wondering if the Foamular can be hot wired like the Smoothfoam can be.

Or please direct me to the correct foam to use. I did buy some from Caswell, but I'd like more of 1/2 inch thick stuff to make mistakes with.

I did do an experiment where I submerged some Foamular and Smoothfoam. After about 1 1/2 hours, the Foamular gained a little weight, but the Smoothfoam almost doubled in weight, using a sensitive gram scale.

[Reckless]

replacing the gas system suits me fine... mines broken anyways ;) when production is ready lemme know I'll send money your way (I keep meaning to pick up a 1/230 skipjack setup anyways)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Thanks, David. Actually, I'm not chomping at the bit for the SAS, I'm still finishing the limber holes, so it will be awhile before I start on the SD plumbing. I was curious how it was going to work, esp as I had been under the impression that the safety valve was going to be placed outside SD, and was trying to envision placement of manifolds and tubing.

It sounds like keeping Gas + SAS is problematical, if safety valve will now fit inside ballast space where Gas tank is now. Will run out of room maybe...

Your concern for available real-estate within the ballast tank is a valid one for boats with small ballast tanks like the KILO, SEAWOLF, and Type-7 -- the loss of volume by addition of the safety float-valves volume, plus that of the on-board bottle, would result in a lower than scale waterline in surfaced trim.


With some actual run-time under my belt with different boats converted over to SAS only (1/72 SKIPJACK, 1/72 GATO, 1/96 Type-212, 1/72 Type-7 and the Moebius SEAVIEW), I can say with confidence that a gas back-up sub-system is an un-needed luxury. I've found that the SAS is capable of getting the boat up off the bottom (how deep is yet to be determined as I'll need a proper pressure gage to measure maximum pump back-pressure) and high enough out of the water to broach the sub-systems snorkel float to enable complete emptying of the ballast tank.

Not to worry, I've abandoned the idea of placing the safety float-valve outside of the SD.

Functionality, reliability, accessibility: the watchwords of good, sound mechanical design.

I ARE TORPEDOMAN!

David

[H2Ohaze]

Thanks, David. Actually, I'm not chomping at the bit for the SAS, I'm still finishing the limber holes, so it will be awhile before I start on the SD plumbing. I was curious how it was going to work, esp as I had been under the impression that the safety valve was going to be placed outside SD, and was trying to envision placement of manifolds and tubing.

It sounds like keeping Gas + SAS is problematical, if safety valve will now fit inside ballast space where Gas tank is now. Will run out of room maybe...

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

STOP!!!!

You people are making me nuts!

Conversion from LPB to SAS for most of our SD's (including the Type-7 SD, discussed here) is a simple matter of adding a snorkel head-valve atop the deck, under the sail; and a safety float-valve within the ballast tank. A slight plumbing change will occur during conversion -- external of the SD's dry spaces. You will install the safety float-valve within the ballast tank, and it will interface with a new forward/intermediate SAS manifold mounted over the ballast tank and a manifold over the forward dry space (from which SD on-board air will be drawn if the snorkel is still underwater when a 'blow' is commanded.


So ... why have I taken so long to freeze the conversion arrangement, get product bagged, and into your impatient little mitts?...


... Well, I have completed the arrangement for the 3.5 SD's, That work's out of the way ... whew!. But I'm still working out the last problem with the smaller SD's: where to stick the safety float-valve. Remember, some pictures showed how I initially had the safety float-valve external of the SD? What a nightmare! However, the issue of fit and simplicity has been resolved by putting it in the ballast tank (in some conversions, it will physically replaces the gas on-board bottle), but there remained the problem of a nipple projecting from the bottom of the cylinder -- a source of potential failure should it damaged during handling. I've worked the thing now where the entire safety float-valve is suspended by a screw collar fitting at the top (much as I currently mount the on-board bottles), putting the bottom nipple well within the protective envelop of the ballast tank structure. Once I get the all-thread, taps and dies needed to achieve this thread cut to the neck of the 'new' safety float-valves, we're in business. I've gone through a LOT of copper, boys and girls!

Anyway ... that's my story, and I'm sticking to it, damit!


David

[H2Ohaze]

H2Ohaze,

Look at the photos in the Cabal report regarding trimming the VIIC. It shows one combined manifold near the gas tank.

Ummm...yes I know this, that part is obvious. But thank you. Please see my post #86. I guess I could ask you "How near, and also considering future addition of SAS?" :)

[H2Ohaze]

the top manifold (2 tubes inline with the SD, and 1 tube up for the snort "snorkel") should go between the gas fill, and the tank vent.. this will put it under the sail.

I got mine from another user .. with the boat itself 95% built, and the SD assembled... but the snort top manifold was put in the same location as for a GATO (in front of the gas fill) ... and it ends up being right under the front gun... not the sail... so I've had to make minor adjustments and compromises.... the big one being that I had to lift the deck a few mm's (I just stacked magnets) so the snort tube could curl back under the deck and into the sail .

oh... and a word of advice..... don't get the wood deck... it's a pain in the rear...

Yes, except that the new manifold doesn't have the induction port sticking up from the SD...it now comes in parallel to the SD lexan tube.

Which leads to the other issue: From studying pics that David gave me of his VIIC just converted to SAS (yes at least one does exist at this time), my guess is that the hose for the new float valve is aft of the periscope where the old induction hose was mounted(??).

So I just wanted to get a fix on the best place to mount that manifold taking into account: 1) hose now comes in parallel, not perpendicular; 2) The tube that connects down from the deck/sail will move aft of it's current (periscope) location(?), the better to fit the float valve under the sail; 3) The SAS includes a safety valve which is a small canister which I think will have to mount outside of SD and therefore may affect(?) routing of hoses to manifolds.

Again, cart before the horse. By the time I am routing the LPB, the SAS may be available, so I just can position everything from deck location of float valve and then mount the manifold, then etc. I'm not worried about it much at the moment.

[Avera]

H2Ohaze,

Look at the photos in the Cabal report regarding trimming the VIIC. It shows one combined manifold near the gas tank.

[Reckless]

the top manifold (2 tubes inline with the SD, and 1 tube up for the snort "snorkel") should go between the gas fill, and the tank vent.. this will put it under the sail.

I got mine from another user .. with the boat itself 95% built, and the SD assembled... but the snort top manifold was put in the same location as for a GATO (in front of the gas fill) ... and it ends up being right under the front gun... not the sail... so I've had to make minor adjustments and compromises.... the big one being that I had to lift the deck a few mm's (I just stacked magnets) so the snort tube could curl back under the deck and into the sail .

oh... and a word of advice..... don't get the wood deck... it's a pain in the rear...

[H2Ohaze]

Hi David,

I was looking at the photos of your VIIC sub SD and noticed that the induction manifold and fill manifold are one unit. The SD came with them as two separate units. I assum this is not a be deal, just requiring the gluing of two parts instead of one and perhaps allowing for better location of either one.

Avera, are you sure about that? The pic I posted above shows just a single right angle manifold, but David said that is only for subs such as Seaview with foreward sails. In my SD driver, which must be similar to the one shipped to you, there definitely is a "middle" manifold which accommodates both the induction from the sail AND the return from the pump- dumping into the top of flooded ballast tank.

The one change from older "middle" manifolds is that the induction intake tube is parallel, not perpendicular, to the lexan SD tube.