Revell Gato 1/72 - Newbie no more Part duex

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You're too good a kit-assembler to ruin your work with cheap-ass rattle-can paints.

Bite the bullet, get down to the automotive refinishing supply house (Professional Finishes, formerly Mattos), and get the Nason primer (cheap, but effective alternative to the very expensive DuPont S31 primer), primary colors and black and white of the ChromaColor, a quart of BaseMaker, and the chromaClear system as well as a can of flattening agent (which will amaze you at how expensive that stuff is!!!!).

Yeah, a hot shop is fine.

Find some fluffy art-supply house and purchase a color-wheel...

... and GET TO IT!

David

[trout]

I used the Dupont primer, but I tried the cheap route for finish........ I doubt Tina will let me confiscate the oven for a day or two (plus I don't know what you cook in, but the Gato would not fit), so I will keep it in the garage for a couple of days - summer in Las Vegas - if it is not 120 degrees in the garage, it is pretty close.
I guess I have escaped this disaster before because the models were all land lubber type kits - airplane, monsters, figures, SF. And I always heard of the issue of mixing lacquers with enamels, but never ran into any issues when applied carefully (several light coats). Another first.
If the heat does not take it out, I will make some small sandpaper sticks and sand it out - maybe buy some Krylon Flat (still need to go the cheaper route)

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Lacquers tend to have a more volatile solvent than enamels -- not wise to put a lacquer over an enamel. That said, what is happening to your finish is not consistent with the 'bubbling up' of paint when you do that. However, you may have, as you suggested, parted the bond between the paint and clear-coat by the use of two different coating systems. The white we see is likely 'blushing' i.e. water entrapped between coats. You dope!

Bake the model at about 120-degrees for a day or two and see if the blushing goes away.

Keep to the same system for your primer, paint, and clear-coat! You can mix it up with the weathering mediums, but not the principle coats!

I use automotive paints. Today I use the two-part polyurethane's produced by DuPont under their ChromaColor and ChromaClear brand names.

David

[trout]

Give me the gory details of your paint problems. Start with what kind of surface preparation, primer, paint, and clear-coat system you're using.

David,
Are you salivating? Scrubbed surface with soapy water and 0000 steel wool to remove oils, then applied base coat was auto primer. Followed by coating of Krylon enamel spray paint out of the can. This was sre the paint for a majority of the build (and water runs). Did the detail painting in Model Masters Enamel, sealed in with Model Masters Lacquer semi-gloss. Did washes and dry brush in enamel and acrylics. Sealed in with Model Masters Lacquer flat. Reviewed, thought CT was too dark, trimmed, sank in pool, stripped gear, all was fine. Then did spray of thinned Model Masters light grey to lighten, sealed with Model Masters Flat, trimmed in kiddie pool, and spots show up.

It looks like to me either the water got under the flat sealer or the flat did not adhere to the undercoat.
What do you think and is there a fix or should I consider this advanced weathering and tell everyone it was intentional and what they did not do the same?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Your form of rust analysis is exciting stuff, Tom. Revealing! Glad you're doing this now and I have yet to weather my GATO.

Give me the gory details of your paint problems. Start with what kind of surface preparation, primer, paint, and clear-coat system you're using.

David

[trout]

I saw a posting somewhere that again US subs did not have a lot of rust. I used to believe that, but since playing with color to b&W, I may have to disagree.
Look at these originals, they are color from 1943-1945 and then my conversion to b&w

O.K. this one, the rust does not completely disappear on the b&w photo, but what might be thought of as chipping or primer is actually rust.


The rust streaking down the CT might look like water staining in b&w or not be noticed at all



The aft end of this sub has a portion of rust, not a little, but a lot. Gone in b&w - might be thought of as shading.



Another aft end with a decent amount of rust. In b&w it disappears into looking like a worn grey (or is that gray?).


More with rust in the trunk.

Here is a great shot of another Sub - More rusty aft. I think this was more common and b&w photos do not show the rust. Combine that with many photos being after repairs and I can see how the thought of the subs being kept up comes about.


I will get back to my build.......
I had some water spots or silvering or separation in my paint from trimming her out. Thoughts?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Lead on then. We will follow.

David

[trout]

Wow, thank you David! I was going to work on adding color to some of the old photos to see if it made sense. One of the things I did pick up studying the photos, is some of the rust almost disappears in b&w. And there are other hurtles to adding color, if the original fleetboat photos had any filters used when taking the picture, like a red filter to enhance contrast, it will skew the outcome. Exposure can also make a difference by washing out or merging together subtle shades. All that to say is I will work on it and see. I am thrilled you and others will might find this useful. That is what all this is about, sharing our talents and ideas to improve our hobby/passion.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Trout,

This is very informative stuff. First the fine collection of B&W fleet-boat photos. Now, this color-to-B&W study. You've hit on something here that will prove to be a major aid to those wishing to capture the patterns and colors of the weathering these (and other) boats evidenced during their long and storied careers.

Well done! I'm looking forward to how you use this technique to 'colorize' (sorry, Mr. Turner) those old, classic B&W shots of fleet-boats.

I suggest you later contact -- once the technique is mastered -- The Floating Drydock with this work. You may have a business deal that outfit in your respective futures.

David

[trout]

I can not have my wish and get some of the B&W photos in color, but I can make color to B&W to compare.
Thank you Mark for the daily pictures I went through all of them and pulled a few pictures as my test.

[trout]

Hull details
USS Wahoo SS-238 showing off some awesome weathering. Her black paint coming off to show the primer underneath.

USS Pargo SS-264 in dry dock. Nice details of streaks to waterline, horizontal muck lines (light and dark), and a nice splotchy hull below that. Hmmmm much like David tells us to do. Which is why the effect is called the Merriman treatment.

Another dry dock sub - I am pretty sure post war for a conversion of the USS Pampon SS-267. A couple of specks of rust here and there.

Here are a pair of tails great examples of the Merriman treatment. USS Greenling and USS Flounder.

Post war gathering. These are riding a little high, but it shows the range of what is correct waterline.

USS Lapon SS-260 has just the touches of rust around the limber holes, on the edge of the bow nose, and along the curve between deck and sides. Note how low she is riding.

The band is playing for the return of the USS Cabrilla SS-288, a Balao with that chain/cable rust marks. Look closely at the limber holes here. Great weathering.

And finally the USS Angler SS-240, coming in to dock. Look at the great waterline details. Oh and note this sub had its bow light above the bow chock.

I just wish I could see this in color. The darker stripe above the white was that a green or black line?

[trout]

David, Your welcome.

Conning towers.....
This next one is fun. This is the USS Bream SS-243. There are so many nice details here. The rust spots above and below the "windows" and the slight streaking from the lower windows edges. The periscopes are not one shiny silver tube (grease? rust? problem with B&W photos). This photo is a high noon photo, so you see shadows as well as weathering. The lower part of the CT is not painted a lighter color, it is angled and getting direct sun. Look at the lower portion of the picture, see the nice horizontal spots of rust? and a lot of it too. Also as a side comment - I have seen some critiques of the model and say the periscopes are reversed. This photo is just like the Revell kit.

The USS Cero SS-225 shows some great overall fading, but look closely at the base of the CT. That line is rust. On some pictures I have seen a little of the deck black painted along the base. There are some random spots of rust breaking out on the sides, near the base the steps, and look under the overhang of the forward gun deck.

The photo below is of the USS Albacore SS-218. This looks to be the overall black paint scheme. You can some great details streaming down the CT.

USS Snook SS-279 - the steps show a slight lighter hue where the shoe would hit.

Here is the USS Flying Fish SS-229 with some great grunge look going on.

Next is the USS Gato SS-212 with a couple of vertical streaks and subtle shading.

I do not know if this is a special camouflage or some major touch up on the USS Haddock SS-231.

Speaking of touch up, do any of you feel sorry for these two?

That is the USS Harder SS-257. Nice variations and the painted patches show were rust must have been forming.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Very useful stuff. Thank you for posting. As it's coming time for me to complete the paint-job on my GATO this stuff will come in most handy. Thanks.

David

[trout]

This will be a three part post.
First will be overall mission worn subs.
Then some conning towers.
Finally hull details.

There are some pictures that I wish were clearer, but looking at this one and especially the bow you can see a lot of discoloration. This is the USS Bonefish SS-223.

Here is another returning. The bow shows the most wear and tear, but look closely at the conning tower, you will see discoloration near the base and spots around the side. The horizontal discoloration may be the stanchion cable. This is the USS Haddo SS-255.

This next one you can see a big patch near the side opening into the conning tower and seams. This is the USS Drum SS-228.

Here is another, late war (1944 0r later) - you can tell by the 5"/25 cal deck gun (same for picture above) vertical streaks and discoloration.

Yes. Below is a late war (see deck gun) Gato, the USS Muskallunge SS-262.


The USS Shad SS-235 is in a very worn black paint job and the streaking on the conning tower is pronounced.


Another view of the USS Drum.

I did a little Gamma correction to bring out some details


Now we come to a couple of my favorite pictures - The Gathering. Look at the wear on these. I will say that you need to be careful about some of the streaks on the conning tower. Some are actually shadows being cast - it must have been close to high noon.

This was an earlier in the day shot and a sub coming in.

Not the same gathering (I am guessing because of angle, direction), but a shot of the bow. There is an interesting rust pattern on the three closest to the pier (forward of the anchor). It is caused by a cable that goes from the deck closer to the nose of the bow to the leading edge of the forward dive planes. These are, from what I have seen, only on Balao subs. You will see this on the last picture on this post. Look at the great weathering possibilities!


Another sub returning from a mission. Look closely at CT and see the discoloration. The bow shows more spots and rust - note little to no streaks of rust. This weathering can be done with salt weathering. Paint a darker color (doesn't have to be - depends on weathering effect you want) like rust or dark grey, place water over the area and pile on salt crystals (table salt). Let that dry, shake off loose salt, spray your lighter color. Let that dry and wash, gently scratch off the salt. Another detail, I have seen this on several pictures, there is an arch of lighter discoloration. I believe this is caused by the sub at cruising speed and the way the water cuts around her bow. This is the USS Halibut SS-232.

Below is a better view of the cable and more weathering. Also look at the photos above - did you notice the transition between the deck color and the sides how it is not sharp, but very smooth or fuzzy? I have seen some very late war pictures of a wavy sharp edge transition. I don't know if it is a weathering issue or how the paint was applied. This is the USS Bowfin SS-287.

Almost all of these photos came from NavSource check it out: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/04idx.htm

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Post away! Great stuff.

David