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Hey guys - sorry I've not been tracking this thread blow-by-blow, the posts have been coming faster than I've had time to review. I'll have a look at this in detail as soon as I get home from my "day job" and figure out where we need to go next. Standby...
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Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
KMc Designs -
i still think my problem is the esc feeding back through the rx to the adf2.. see 3 vid i posted..awaiting on daves input after seeing all 3 vidsComment
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Satlite, please stand by. I managed to see vid 3, but it's hopeless watching stuff here. I'm in the foothills of the Rockies. No Cable, Satellite, only one phone dialup landline, cell phone only works in one spot in the house, no TV, just a few radio stations, etc. Very beautiful though.
I'm driving to town to a coffee shop with laptop. Stand by.
I can mention a few thoughts now. From vid 3, yes, the motor hesitation sounds like mine. I'd predict you'd get it no matter what, it's not going away. Keven said he gets it on his Oscar, I get it a bit on my Holland though not as bad. Most damming is the fact that I can run my esc through my servo tester, using the power from the Lipo (the tester can feed off the signal plug channel 3 to get BEC).
When I do this, I get the motor stutter. Nothing else in the SD is on but the Lipo battery, LPB, and Lipo Guard. Rx is NOT powered. So either power wire proximity, esc quirk, or motor emf or ? is the cause.
If I had to take a guess, and it's really a shot from left field, so don't believe me, since it only happens when motors are forward, I'd look at the esc, since the motors generate electrical noise and the battery cable generate EMF whether throttle is forward or backwards. Only the esc has to pulse things differently. Maybe all esc's do it, I think Kevin said he used another esc.
And my last thought for you is, if I follow your tests right, and I may not since no vid yet, only change one variable at a time. Don't yank five things out and put 2 back in. One out, one back in.
Dave is right about that. He's also right about getting a Servo Tester. I'm discovering lots of things with it. Fun.Comment
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One variable at a time.Who is John Galt?Comment
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Have you tried disconnecting everything from the battery, except for the esc? Plug it into a channel on the receiver, with no other channels connected, and see what it does. Try it on other channels. if the stuttering continues, you have a duff ESC. It could be a regulator not working correctly, and causing the processor to brown out intermittently, or a bad processor- lots of things.Comment
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yes that is last vid i postedComment
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Well...my esc does the exact same thing, and Kevin says his Oscar does too, though not sure what esc he's using.
I watched the vids. I can only comment, and I might be going ranting nowhere...or straight to the point.YMMV
1) The motor hesitation is a separate problem. It may relate possibly to the blow servo twitch, but don't study both, solve one at a time. Would you rather have your prop pause 1/2 second then start up again in the water, or your blow/vents be unpredictable? Easy choice for me. I want to know when I'm blowing or getting heavier. A momentary prop will stop plane-ing action, and maybe create a bit of turbulence, but I don't think I'lll lose control (IMVHO). I also can live with a bit of stern plane twitch as long as it's centered about neutral- direct experience from my Holland (for all the pitch controller side of things= moderate vibration).
2) When I hooked up my servo tester to my esc, with Rx dead, I still got hesitation. I'd say it's a systemic problem (built in prob- no easy fix).
3) If you want to study the blow servo twitch...Put everything back in-everything. Does it twitch? If yes, then remove only ADF2. Does it still twitch with motor on? or not? Okay now leave everything inc ADF2 in except unplug channel 4 at the Rx and plug into your Servo Tester. Run the motor through Tx and crank the servo tester knob a bit then leave at 1.5 ms (middle of knob). The Servo Tester is running through Lipo Guard->ADF2->blow servo.
4) I guess if you wanted to study the motor hesitation, you would hook the Servo Tester to it and start moving wires around, replacing esc if possible or adding heavier capacitors or maybe diodes (disconnect for reverse travel) to motors...wouldn't this be a good app for an oscilloscope on the motors? At any rate two items; one change at a time and a proper measuring device.Last edited by H2Ohaze; 11-27-2012, 06:37 PM.Comment
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I'll start by echoing David's comments - this is some thorough troubleshooting guys.
I'm using two mTronics Sub10 ESCs in my OSCAR. (The Sub10 is basically a Viper40 with an external BEC.)
@H20Haze
Having gone through all the information here my hunch is that your ADF2 (and MPC) are victims to something else's noise (ESC?) but, that doesn't change the fact that you've got a ballast servo that's twitching when it shouldn't be twitching. The fact that it twitches when the ADF2 is taking its signal from the Rx but not when the ADF2 has gone to failsafe mode tells to me that something's getting in to the front end of the ADF2 and messing with the signal that it's reading. Even though I don't think the ADF2 you have is causing the problem please PM me your mailing address and I'll mail you a replacement to try.
@satlite440
Thanks for posting the video clips, yes that's exactly the same hesitation behaviour I see with my ESCs. (Actually I it's only one, not both.) It's on my list of things to look at but doesn't seem to be causing any other problems so I've been more concerned with other things.Kevin McLeod - Oscar II driver
KMc DesignsComment
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"@H20Haze
Having gone through all the information here my hunch is that your ADF2 (and MPC) are victims to something else's noise (ESC?) but, that doesn't change the fact that you've got a ballast servo that's twitching when it shouldn't be twitching. The fact that it twitches when the ADF2 is taking its signal from the Rx but not when the ADF2 has gone to failsafe mode tells to me that something's getting in to the front end of the ADF2 and messing with the signal that it's reading. Even though I don't think the ADF2 you have is causing the problem please PM me your mailing address and I'll mail you a replacement to try."
More mysterious is that I can disconnect the Rx channel 4-> Lipo Guard--> ADF2-->blow servo and plug it into the Servo Tester operated by a separate Nicad pack. Then when I run the motors I still get twitching. So yes, there is something that the ADF2 doesn't like, but it doesn't have to be physically wired to Rx to go weird. The power leads on the Lipo Guard are connected.
I hope that the pitch leveler isn't affected too. I'm used to a little oscillation on my other subs.
I'll PM info for sending. Thanks Kevin.Comment
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Makes me wonder if satlite would get the same chatter/ no chatter if just ADF2 were removed.Last edited by H2Ohaze; 11-28-2012, 01:49 AM.Comment
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i will try to night with just the lipogard-vent/blow servo on ch 4 and the sternplanes direct to ch6 WITHOUT the adf2... and post results..Comment
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I removed the ADF2 from it's servo tape mount after calibrating it more or less with the stern servo. It was close to the motors so I wanted to see what would happen when I positioned it three inches away from the tray, hanging out in space. The distance was limited by the signal wires.
The blow servo still chattered when motors were run. WRT the stern servo, I observed some twitch, but result is inconclusive. It was hard to keep the thing hanging out in space, isolated from both motor vibration and not changing it's orientation.
Separately, I am beginning to wonder about the possibility of testing out an alternate esc. This would be to see if motor hesitation stops. Getting the chattering to stop would be an extra bonus I am viewing it as.
The Viper 10 is rated for 10 amps. I found a Tekin B1R:
$60 ouch! No amp rating; it says it handles up to a 380 size motor.
Questions I would have are: can it handle the two motors in the VIIC? And is there a safe way to alligator clip it into the circuit onto one of the motor's terminals, without blowing out either of the two escs now connected in parallel? I would throw the slide switch on the Viper off and probably connect battery separately to the Tekin, making sure no power went to the Viper.
Thoughts? David?Comment
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so h2ohaze look at the post i just did in mtronics for moter stutter and watch the 2 vids i posted.. the 1st one is with lpb-lipogard-adf2 out of r/x&power leads..if i remeber right you have the sl8 r/x right??? i have the lepton 6and with only servo's in rx no extra gizmo's i only have the stutter in forward....and as a extra step i pulled the r/x antenna off to the side... look at them and let me know.....Comment
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The Viper-10 has more than enough ass for the job.I removed the ADF2 from it's servo tape mount after calibrating it more or less with the stern servo. It was close to the motors so I wanted to see what would happen when I positioned it three inches away from the tray, hanging out in space. The distance was limited by the signal wires.
The blow servo still chattered when motors were run. WRT the stern servo, I observed some twitch, but result is inconclusive. It was hard to keep the thing hanging out in space, isolated from both motor vibration and not changing it's orientation.
Separately, I am beginning to wonder about the possibility of testing out an alternate esc. This would be to see if motor hesitation stops. Getting the chattering to stop would be an extra bonus I am viewing it as.
The Viper 10 is rated for 10 amps. I found a Tekin B1R:
$60 ouch! No amp rating; it says it handles up to a 380 size motor.
Questions I would have are: can it handle the two motors in the VIIC? And is there a safe way to alligator clip it into the circuit onto one of the motor's terminals, without blowing out either of the two escs now connected in parallel? I would throw the slide switch on the Viper off and probably connect battery separately to the Tekin, making sure no power went to the Viper.
Thoughts? David?
Do not connect a live ESC in parallel with the output(s) of installed ESC that are not powered up. I don't know if the output is diode protected, so play it safe and disconnect the inactive ESC's from the motor(s) terminals. Then test.
DavidWho is John Galt?Comment
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"The Viper-10 has more than enough ass for the job."
Yes I realize that. My point was if I were to dream up a possible experiment to see if any of my problems are caused by the esc, one experiment would be to simply replace the esc with another Viper 10 and watch results. However, after that, another test would then be to replace esc with a "different brand name" esc and see if that changes response.
I would need to know which esc to try. The Tekin esc doesn't give an amp rating; it gives only a motor size of 380. I think you use two 280 size motors in the VIIC but I'm not sure...and I don't know how power needed works with these things. Does 2 X 280= equiv amp draw of a 560 motor for example? I should know that but I don't.
I'm not saying that the Viper 10 is a bad esc to use...on the contrary I use two in my Holland (one for pump), and love them. I'm just brainstorming possible variables to test for as I wait for the 5 amp BEC and my replacement ADF2 to arrive.
And it seems complicated by having to cut at least one wire coming from existing esc to do these two tests. Not a lot of room there to re-solder it back if need be.
I see that satlite has started a new thread with videos (post 43 above). I hope he is able to resolve his issues, but it is difficult for me to track two threads and watch videos. It takes an hour out of my day to drive into town to a high speed connection, and then there's gasoline. Just loading this one page takes a minute or so on my dialup. I will mainly keep posting to this thread unless David/Keven want to shift things around. My apologies.
***A repetition of my experiment by someone else, where everything is left in and wires packed as if for running sub...then removing ONLY the ADF2 and repacking would still be a good experiment to run. It would hint at whether I have a rare bum ADF2, or whether there may be a more far reaching issue with the ADF2 itself, or it's use with the Viper 10 (Since now two, not just one unit, would prove bad). And running channel 4 from a Servo Tester would be an extra bonus, as it gets the Tx/Rx eliminated from the variables list.***Comment
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