Viper 10 chatters Lipo Guard blow servo, LPB motor

[H2Ohaze]

The worst chatter coming from the vent/blow servo:

I've got a 2000 mah Lipo battery, the Lipo Guard power leads, and the LPB motor end cap pc board power leads wired together in parallel with the Viper 10 esc in a VIIC SD.

This happens with an adequate battery charge, and Tx antenna extended, etc.

The failsafe signal lead goes from vent/blow servo to ADF2 failsafe, then to Lipo Guard, then to Rx channel 4. I don't have the pitch leads from and to the ADF2 rigged up yet...the stern plane servo is for the moment into the Rx channel 2.

I'm using BEC from the esc to Rx.

Since I bought the SD from Caswell, all the caps and wiring from esc to two prop motors I assume were already in place.

I'm using an SL-8 and a Futaba 9C radio. Per SD instructions, I cut the antenna white wire at 6 inches and fastened to the nut that goes to external purple wire, about 3 feet long. It's not shorted to sheet metal, the insulating washer is in place.

The three servos (rudder, stern plane, bow planes) are rock steady. and everything else is too except when I give throttle input to prop motors. Every so often the motors will pause for a second then start up again. I've seen this before in other subs. Maybe it's not an issue?

Also the LPB channel 7 will also flicker on and off, about once every 30-60 seconds with throttle. I might be able to fix this by programing a switch on Tx for greater range like -10 to 100%. Nevertheless it is still a symptom and the LPB motor is connected to that parallel connection.

---By far the worst is that the vent/blow servo is chattering somewhere at least 50% both directions, if not more of full throw when throttle on.---

I'm guessing that that main parallel connection where the battery leads and esc leads connect to the LPB power leads and the Lipo Guard power leads needs more isolation, maybe some diodes or caps, but don't know what to do.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

A well presented trouble-shooting problem.

The main problem is the ballast sub-system servo chattering. We'll address that first:

Plug the servo straight into the receivers ch-4 port. does the chattering go away? If so, keep the Lipo-Guard out of the loop and connect the ADF fail-safe lead to the receiver ch-4 port and output the fail-safe to the servo. Does the servo chatter or not? If it does not, you have a bum Lipo-Guard.

Tray this and get back to us here.

David

[H2Ohaze]

An interesting thing to note is the prop motor hesitation only occurs with throttle in forward direction, whatever is hooked through failsafe or not. This motor hesitation seems to occur maybe every 10 seconds or so, now that I look closer at it.

The servo chatter is not in concert with the motor pauses either. The chatter occurs more or less continuously.

The green light on the LPB circuit board still flashes on looks like maybe five times a minute when throttle on either forward or reverse, and whether ADF2 and Lipo Guard in line to Rx.

When vent/blow servo plugged directly into channel 4 Rx: no servo chatter.

When Lipo Guard out of signal line but powered on, and servo connected direct to ADF2 failsafe, then ADF2 connected to channel 4 Rx: chatter! Same as original problem, both in amount and type. The pitch leads are not connected as of yet.

I didn't try Lipo Guard only...

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

OK. Stop right there. Sounds like the problem is in the ADF2, the fail-safe side. Go through the fail-safe set-up protocal and try again. If it still chatters, you might have to replace the ADF2.

Kevin? Help!!

David

[KevinMc]

I've seen the "forward throttle studder" phenomena you describe, I live with it on my OSCAR. I've no idea what it is, but I'd love to know so I can get rid of it too. (I've never noticed it in the water, but it bugs me knowing that it may be there.) The funny thing there is I'm running two speed-500 sized motors from independant mTroniks Sub10 ESCs, so it's not a viper-unique thing. I'm not running an SL-8 in the OSCAR, so I don't think that's causing it.

Now back to the real problem here - I'd like to hear the result of servo->LiPo Guard->Rx 4. (No ADF2).

Is the "blinking green" of the ADF2 when you run the motor possibly because you're right near zero-bubble and the vibes are throwing it off a bit? (Test this by using a block to raise the bow or stern of the boat until the green light is definitely out then test again.) If that's what it is a new one won't fix that - the zero-bubble indication is pretty sensitive.

Do you have a different servo you could plug in to the FS output of the ADF2 to show that another otherwise well behaved servo does the same as the ballast servo? (Perhaps try the rudder or planes servo since their behaviour will be really easy to see.)

As for your MPC, if you were to replace the MPC with a servo does the arm move from end-to-end when you toggle the switch or from mid-point (MPC off) to end (MPC on)?

Sorry for all the questions, I just like to get as good a picture of what's going on while all the hardware is still in one place. I can't come up with a plausible explanation as to why an ADF2 would cause the ballast servo to chatter like that, but if that's what the troubleshooting points to I'll take care of it.

[H2Ohaze]

I just redid the 2 light-3 light setup for f/s on ADF2. Lipo Guard not in circuit. I also finally assigned the LPB channel 7 to a DP switch on my Tx. The switch is set for 0->100% travel.

Still chattering away. Again, I then tried without ADF2 or Lipo Guard...servo direct to channel 4. No chatter.

The LPB light chatters on like the motors when throttle forward or reverse, but not in sync with them necessarily. When LPB Tx switch flipped on, the green light on the LPB chatters off!

BTW, the ADF2 does trigger on signal loss. Servo stops chatter when I switch off Tx, and servo throws fully to blow.

I tried two different 75 mhz modules, one Hitec one Futaba channel 78 in the back of my Futaba 9C which has the same module setup as the WFLY.

The SL-8 has not had any special thing like f/s programed into it, just used the shadow programer to set channel.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

If you have a servo setter: take the receiver out of the loop and put the servo setter to the Lipo-guard and see how the ballast sub-system servo behaves.

You'ver reduced me to being an easter-egg chasing fool here!

David

[H2Ohaze]

My post above was before I saw Kevins. To answer Kevin:



"Now back to the real problem here - I'd like to hear the result of servo->LiPo Guard->Rx 4. (No ADF2)"

Lipo Guard only: no chatter from vent/blow servo.


"Is the "blinking green" of the ADF2 when you run....."

N/A as the pitch leads are not hooked up yet. No green light denoting "level"...or vibrations causing servo chatter. I'm familiar with and expect this kind of chatter from my ADF2 in my Holland.


"Do you have a different servo you could plug in to the FS output of the ADF2 to show that another otherwise well behaved servo does the same as the ballast servo?"

Didn't mention it before but already tried this. An ordinary servo mid size from my box of parts does the same chatter. Goes away when plugged directly into Rx.

"As for your MPC, if you were to replace the MPC with a servo does the arm move from end-to-end when you toggle the switch or from mid-point (MPC off) to end (MPC on)?"

Servo was doing only 45 degrees, but I reprogrammed the switch. Now does 90 degrees. I also tried it on a - to + rotary switch and still got 90 degrees full sweep. The LPB is chattering on, but not as much as the motors (going forward). I am still getting chatter on the green light, but not as much as the motors do. And it may have decreased some (still there though) since I started twisting rotary knob ALL the way to "-"...or got a full throw for the switch just now. It also chatters off when switch is "on".

"Sorry for all the questions, I just like to get as good a picture of what's going on while all the hardware is still in one place. I can't come up with a plausible explanation as to why an ADF2 would cause the ballast servo to chatter like that, but if that's what the troubleshooting points to I'll take care of it."

No prob, I used to be a mechanical engineer, people were always asking me questions I couldn't answer without $$ experiments. Sometimes there is no discernible answer- you just guess.

[H2Ohaze]

David....

"If you have a servo setter: take the receiver out of the loop and put the servo setter to the Lipo-guard and see how the ballast sub-system servo behaves."

I knew there was a good use for those things! No never bought one, yet anyway.

Isn't hooking blow servo direct to channel 4 Rx sort of proving that Rx works? Maybe not....

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David....

"If you have a servo setter: take the receiver out of the loop and put the servo setter to the Lipo-guard and see how the ballast sub-system servo behaves."

I knew there was a good use for those things! No never bought one, yet anyway.

Isn't hooking blow servo direct to channel 4 Rx sort of proving that Rx works? Maybe not....

The 'scientific method', pal. one variable at a time. I want to get the RF side of things out of the circuit. A good, solid pulse generator without any possibility of a decoder getting clobbered by RF noise, screwing up the pulse train. Spring for the servo setter -- good to have handy for any number of chores. I want to eleminate any possiblity of transients coming down the lead to the other devices in the loop.

You into signal-tracing and analysis? An O-scope would be nice to have right about now.


David

[satlite440]

sound like what i have going on.. see set up vidio.. i could try to contribute by setting up my sd but instead of paralleling the adf2&lipogard i could run them from a seperate batt pac.and see if the cause is all power cables being paralleled too close to the viper 10...will see about makeing another set of jumper wires....or is this not the problem you are haveing?????

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

sound like what i have going on.. see set up vidio.. i could try to contribute by setting up my sd but instead of paralleling the adf2&lipogard i could run them from a seperate batt pac.and see if the cause is all power cables being paralleled too close to the viper 10...will see about makeing another set of jumper wires....or is this not the problem you are haveing?????

What receiver are you using here? Is the antenna wire NOT hitting the aluminum servo tray? Try pulling all leads but ch-3 from the receiver and see if that makes the motor glitching stop. Keep me informed. The video was very useful. Keep at it, kido!

David

[H2Ohaze]

That was over 30 years ago, and I never did electrical, just mechanical. Don't give me too much credit for smarts here. :)

You mean get this:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/astro-servo-tester-AST105#t1

or this:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/multi-servo-tester-mt1-GWSRMT001

?

Or:

If I was careful, I may be able to disconnect the f/s leads from the ADF2 in my Holland and put them in line with the VIIC blow servo to Rx. I'd want to not dislodge the Hollands ADF2, it took forever to get it level correcting in the water due to the way hull is put together. I'd need to get a couple long extension leads to reach over from it's equipment tray. Wouldn't want to recalibrate the thing at least pitch-wise.

Another thought is just buy another ADF2 and see if it works better? Send back if it doesn't?

[H2Ohaze]

response to video:

sorry only dialup here in mountains. I have to drive into town to watch that video. So I don't know what your getting at.

If you're getting at isolating LPB or Lipo Guard from esc...my Lipo Guard doesn't seem to be at issue. The LPB is affected when the motors are driven forward or backwards. So there is interference there. But I worry much more about the motors pausing which happens forward only. And I worry the most about the vent/blow servo which chatters when the ADF2 is inline.

The rudder, stern and bow plane servos are all steady, all the time. No interference there...all this seems to point to more than RF noise, although that may be a part of it. The esc doesn't bother any servo when it's not plugged into the ADF2. It does bother the LPB some.

[satlite440]

for the record i have the lepton6 reciver and the caswell adf2&lipogard and lpb&controll bord,along with the vIIc s/d and a wfly6..the problem i am haveing is with everthing hooked up and the the adf2&esc set up when i go over 1/4 throttle in forward or reverse my lpb and the vent/blow,stern&bow planes and rudder servo's twitch ..the twitching gets worse the higher the throttle is pushed..at max forward/reverse it starts to cut in and out...now i do know for a fact that before the adf2/lpb/lipo gard were installed the viper 10 didn't seem to have any problem and ran smoothly...so i think in the intrest of diag i will road test this thought of mine and see if a seperate power source to the adf2&lpb&lipogard will elimanate the twitching....i will report back on this a.s.a.p....



to be clear the lpb led comes on intermitanly and the stern planes and vent/blow servo twitch while the esc is above 1/4 throttle in forward or reverse for me..dave was sending me a new viper 10 due to the fact it was twitching the sevo's and the moters were starting&stopping when steady state throttle was comanded...


and i was carful to make the receiver antenna lead to the moter bulkhead as per the pdf for the 2inch s/d from the seaveiw cabal to answer daves question... also dave if you have already posted the esc and we figure this out i will send it back... if you haven't yet... hold up till i report back.. on the seperate power source for the adf2&lpb&lipogard...