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Would you if you could

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  • Would you if you could

    For those who are following the hybrid WTC build, I’m currently writing some code for the Arduino used in that project that uses some formulas to read the absolute position of the sub using a 9 degrees of freedom sensor (or gyro). The sensor provides feedback from a 3 axis magnetometer, a 3 axis accelerometer, and a 3 axis gyroscope.




    The combined feedback from the three separate types of sensors produce a very accurate and corrected orientation for the x, y, or z positions.




    Mainly, I was just interested in using the combined data of these sensors for the x axis data (bow to stern angle).




    The plan was to use the data to automatically update the trimming of the boat (via the twin piston tanks) to a even keel during diving or surfacing statically to set up a base line trim for both In either condition.




    A separate pressure sensor is also involved in this outlined scenario that records depth readings at the keel in both conditions.




    Okay with that outlined here is my question:




    After researching multiple original documents regarding operational procedures for WW2 Type VIIC Submarines, there are specific attitude angles outlined for these boats during diving and surfacing under varied conditions.




    Ie, normal dive, dive to periscope depth, crash dive, surface, surface to periscope depth and of course blow ballast and surface in an emergency. Each condition gives a specific range of bow to stern angle of decent or ascend and when each part of the boat breaks or disappears from the surface.




    The data I get from the sensor can be used to recreate each of these scenarios. Through coding I could hypothetically control the ballast and dive planes make each of these conditions selectable and executable on the transmitter.




    So would you if you could? Would like to hear feedback.




    Thanks

  • #2
    Would I? Hmm... nope. It feels like a massive investment in time and energy for a procedure that literally takes under 3 seconds for most RC subs. From the shore, are you or anyone else going to notice that the sub surfaced at 5 degrees versus 10 degrees? Likely not. I prefer to "wing it", but that's me.

    All that said, if this kind of thing turns your crank, then ABSOLUTELY, do it! If nothing else, it's a learning experience and something that could come in handy for other projects or uses down the road!


    Bob

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    • #3
      I have no doubt Bob is right, but introducing Arduino and all the sensors available to it might be one of those things that drums up interest in RC subs. I have sitting in front of me a 10 DOF (degrees of freedom) sensor and a waterproof depth sensor. As I am working on the next project for Bob I am thinking how can I incorporate some cool automation and data collecting. Maybe not for everyone but for those that are interested think of the possibilities.

      For those that are not familiar with Arduino think sensors and controller for pressure, temperature, motion, automation, navigation (GPS) the thing can even text you the information and it's easy to learn. Maybe not for everyone but come on that's cool.

      Like Bob says if it's your thing do it. I for one will be interested.

      Randy

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      • #4
        Good feedback so far.

        Randy,

        I agree the possibilities are incredible when a Arduino or any micro controller are introduced into a project like these. I was resistant to exploring this technology for years until I finally stopped fighting when I realized what a get tool it could be used for. Just the fact that it has allowed me to convert a 9 channel radio set into a radio that has functions more like the multi channel Graupner unit that is no longer available. Best part is the sensors and Arduino boards are dirt cheap. A $18.00 genuine Arduino Nano board and some custom written code allowed me to expand that 9 channel Futaba to have many more functions. Try doing that a decades ago. You'd have to spend a small fortune buying channel expansion modules to upgrade you transmitter and receiver.

        What 10 DOF sensor and pressure sensor are you playing around with?

        So far I've played around with a MPU-6050 sensor(an oldie but goodie). For simple projects this sensor will do the trick.

        I've also been playing around with Pololu's MinIMU-9 which is a 9 DOF sensor. It has a gyro, Accelerometer, and Compass. Great sensor for $16.00. I've had good results so far with this unit but it takes some involved coding to get good calibrated data out of it.

        Adafruit's BNO055 9 DOF sensor is great and that is the one I'm playing around with the most lately. A bit more pricey at $35.00 but it uses a chip from Bosch that already blends the gyro, accelerometer and magnetometer information together on the board which is pretty cool and allows the code needed to get great calibrated signals out of it to be much simpler and take up less memory on the Arduino compared to other sensors.

        For any of those out there following this that are interested in learning more about Arduino, I suggest taking a look at Paul McWhorter's YouTube channel as one of many resources out there. He has a great collection of Arduino tutorials that he has put a lot of time and effort into for teaching Arduino to beginners. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...tcvK-WBZm8WLEP

        Nick

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        • #5
          My 10DOF is from a company called Waveshare made for the Raspberry Pi Pico. Arduino vs Pico, VW vs Ferrari, Arduino is suppose to be making their IDE compatible with Pico and developing there own board based on RP2040 microcontroller chip.

          For people interested though start with Arduino for now there is a lot more support. I agree Paul McWhorter is a great way to start for people interested.

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          • #6
            Looking forward to the arduino rp2040 release
            Last edited by Monahan Steam Models; 04-11-2021, 06:16 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              By all means if you want to innovate / explore / go for it. - There maybe a new product / device that comes out of it. That's a very good thing.
              However, I have been doing this hobby since 1997, and for what is being proposed my first reaction is - hell no. Current auto levellers do the job just fine . And I have to say threads like this always leave me asking:

              What subs and WTCs have you got running right now that are so deficient that they need this?

              Subs are high maintenance beasts and already complicated enough. I have seen first hand plenty of high tech electrical efforts parked beyond the pit wall at regattas - benched for the weekend proceedings due to their owner's emphasis of the rube goldberg complications and forsaking the basics of real world operations that resulted in drowned electronics.

              I'm more excited to see new innovations around mission critical basics that insure longevity and enjoyment of stick time and prevent water ingress.
              A good example of that innovation is the persistent evolution of the Subdrivers - from the early beginnings of the D&E Miniatures units, through to latest units - this is hardware that makes the hobby accessible and enjoyable.

              However, If you want to innovate in the tech space to truly make this hobby more accessible - get building FM radios on US and European legal frequencies.
              There is a REAL need for a new source of FM radios in the hobby which is a rate limiter for expansion. Keep it simple - 6 channels max. Yes it's old tech - and there should be an innovative way to mass produce cheaply. Basic sets with two stick gimbals and a couple of three way switches, channel reversing, dry cell AAs in the back, and trim tabs for the 4 gimbal channels. That's all the sophistication we need, and in FM its in extremely short order to find anything new. I have seen ridiculous prices paid on Ebay auctions for used FM gear without warranty or any comeback if the units are dead on arrival. New units would be gobbled up by old and new comers to the hobby.

              Cheers
              J
              Last edited by Slats; 04-12-2021, 02:29 AM.
              John Slater

              Sydney Australia

              You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
              Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



              sigpic

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              • #8
                As I see it, Nick- you have impressively replaced the typical micro and/or magnetic switching found in a typical (piston) model sub and cleaned up and eliminated a rats nets worth of wiring with that tiny Arduino. It seems that you also have the coding ability- Sounds like you'll also have all the gyros and sensors on board for other functions anyway.. The platform is there already. To do what you are asking could be accomplished with some work on the computer and a boatload of spare time. To answer the question asked- after the boat is up and running and all checks out, Sure I'd do it, just the same as if I'd add additional scale afterthought items to a completed surface boat- only way cooler!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bob Gato View Post
                  As I see it, Nick- you have impressively replaced the typical micro and/or magnetic switching found in a typical (piston) model sub and cleaned up and eliminated a rats nets worth of wiring with that tiny Arduino. It seems that you also have the coding ability- Sounds like you'll also have all the gyros and sensors on board for other functions anyway.. The platform is there already. To do what you are asking could be accomplished with some work on the computer and a boatload of spare time. To answer the question asked- after the boat is up and running and all checks out, Sure I'd do it, just the same as if I'd add additional scale afterthought items to a completed surface boat- only way cooler!
                  Bob,

                  You hit the nail on the head. All the equipment is already onboard to do it. It is just a matter of writing the section of code that would do it. Right now the main focus has been bringing each sensor and piece of equipment online for the basic system functionality and it is just about there. Working on the bit of code now that will control the auto leveling and trimming of the pistons. I've been playing around with and testing different gyro sensors for this part of the system. I believe that I finally found a gyro sensor that will be the one used. I'll post some current progress photos in the build thread.

                  I agree the different automatic dive routines I mentioned earlier can be added later once the boat is up and running.

                  Nick

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