Turning circles

[redboat219]

How come the Gato as a wide turning circle when the rudder is in the prop wash?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The kilo is also a chubby little boat compared with the Seawolf, which is quite long and narrow, which seems to be a characteristic of modern U.S attack class boats.

I think the best place to look is to nature when considering what you want from a boat. Small reef fish which have to weave in and out of coral invariably evolve a chubby profile, which gives agility at the expense of speed. A Barracuda which requires speed above all else evolves a thin profile, not so agile, but slips through the water well.

One of the most agile and best handling boats you could ever build is one of the earliest- a Holland class. Other boats which spring to mind are the little Delphin midget sub, Deep Quest and a DSRV would make a great pool sub. BTW what happened to that DSRV project you were working up with FX models, Dave. On the slow burner?

Andy

My involvement was/is to develop and market the integrated thruster/control surface hardware and WTC/SD. All that contingent on my acceptance of a DSRV hull kit so I can get on with the job. Nothing has showed up on my door-step. I'm still game, but the ball is in FX's court.

David,

[toppack]

How come the Gato as a wide turning circle when the rudder is in the prop wash?

I think it's because a Scale rudder is just Too small, for such a long wedge shaped hull? Hull acts as a large fin, that makes it want to go straight.

[Subculture]

I agree, it's a big long boat. Also just a single rudder in between two props, same as British boats during that era, and they suffer from poor turning ability too. No such problems with the contemporary German Type VII boats with their twin rudders, which turn noticeably smarter, the later Type XXI turns poorly however, no doubt due to the single rudder configuration and broad figure-of-eight hull cross section.

The problem for most scale submarine modellers, is that with few exceptions, until the advent of nuclear propulsion, submarines built during and after WWI were designed primarily as submerigible cruisers, rather than submarines proper.

[Subculture]

My involvement was/is to develop and market the integrated thruster/control surface hardware and WTC/SD. All that contingent on my acceptance of a DSRV hull kit so I can get on with the job. Nothing has showed up on my door-step. I'm still game, but the ball is in FX's court.

David,

Ah gotcha. No hull- I thought they'd sent you one through a long while ago.

[VanguardUK]

yes it certainly does, and I must say the British T classes have what I call a runt of a lower rudder, its all of only about 1/2 the surface area of the upper one.

The other thing you notice when you run targets as well as subs is the thrust differences from rpm. You go down just a a foot or so and the sub screw tends to be more efficient than the skimmer- a lot lower rpm for heaps more forward movement.

When I built the Sheerline T boat, I swapped the lower rudder for a duplicate top one, this vastly improved the turning circle, as did removing the bloody great battery from the bow section & slung Nicads under the WTC.

[toppack]

What are you guys Talking About???
The WW2 British T-class has Only 1 rudder, hanging below stern!
Are you talking about modern T boats, as in 'Toy-dildos'? :D LOL :D

[Slats]

What are you guys Talking About???
The WW2 British T-class has Only 1 rudder, hanging below stern!
Are you talking about modern T boats, as in 'Toy-XXXXX'? :D LOL :D

Rick yes we are talking about modern T boats as in Trafalgar classes.
And before the pink underwear censor comes back I suggest you remove that part of your post that kid's parents will object too. On the subject of your reference above there is nothing toy like about the class or for that matter my T class boat. And Rick I don't care for your snide remarks no matter how many similes you put alongside them. Your rage over someones pricing of their own work in a previous post speaks volumes in that regard.

[toppack]

I live in the modern world where dildo is not considered a bad word.
What the Heck does Overpriced kits got to do with my Joke about modern Subs. Nothing Snide about it.
It's too bad you don't appreciate Jokes, but I will continue to try to make this forum a Fun place to visit, in spite of your Overly Bitter remarks. Here we call that 'being thin skinned', unable to take and understand a joke, even tho it was in No way directed at you personally.

Please notice that I refrained from using any curse words, altho I very much wanted to.

[Slats]

HMAS Collins 1/72 scale (not mine a fellow TF72 members)
Minimum turn surfaced = a couple of metres tops
Minimum turn dived - its own length

Got to love the X fin

[toppack]

Since WW2 British subs, of that class, are Called T-class, is it Correct to call modern subs with names starting with (T), T-class Also?
If so, that will make things very confusing.
Surely modern subs should be called something else, such as Trafalgar class?

I'm asking, I'm not sure what is considered Proper in the UK?

[Slats]

Rick the modern ones are called T in a more of slang way than the original ones. That is the original T classes are more commonly referred to that way than the Trafalgars, where its just modern shorterned slang.

In terms of old and new classes being referred to in the same way -it can be confusing where by the RN adopts a formal name of a whole class of vessel. The word Leander is a good example i.e Its use describes across decades, different classes. i.e Leander class frigates / Leander Class Cruisers - both very different animals and different eras.

J

[Slats]

When I built the Sheerline T boat, I swapped the lower rudder for a duplicate top one, this vastly improved the turning circle, as did removing the bloody great battery from the bow section & slung Nicads under the WTC.

yes a friend here has that boat and its a pig with the SLA forward.
The 1/72 OTW is a shorter lighter boat and it has the bear minimum battery weight via NiMHs.

J

[toppack]

Rick the modern ones are called T in a more of slang way than the original ones. That is the original T classes are more commonly referred to that way than the Trafalgars, where its just modern shorterned slang.

Thanks for the Info.
Yep, Very Confusing! :D

[redboat219]

The reason the KILO has the high turn rate is the minimal vertical profile of the narrow stern.

Guess it's the same reason why the Albacore and Skipjacks were so manueverable.
Too bad the navy didn't incorporate it in succeeding sub classes.