Sturgeon vertical fins on USS Barb (Permit class)

[Slats]

Guys I have ordered a 1/72 Permit kit recently from Joel Stadnick in Canada. The boat will be awesome. I also am going to buy the Stark 1/72 Sturgeon kit (short hull) when its available. Given my liking of both these boats I have started doing so further reading on some of their finer details and development.

I started looking at which Permit I would build, in fact I still have not decided.
Anyway through enquires with Joel, I came across something that I'd like more information on. I have always thought that the vertical fins on the rear planes / stabilisers extremes of the Sturgeon were only ever on these boats and that no other class had them. We all know (or should know) the extreme screw up in representing the back end of an LA in the movie Hunt for Red October, where Paramount slapped on vertical fins to Dallas (an LA).

Joel has since showed me photos of USS Barb 596 (Permit class) with the towed array exit point above the upper port side vertical fin.

First of all what are these Fins called? Are these sensors?
Next does anyone have any more details on when and why Barb had them installed?

I could guess it was a trial run for the Sturgeon's but I can find no details anywhere of these being fitted.

From the website: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08596.htm
Have a look at the following photo of Barb (second from the bottom). The website lists this as USS Barb (second from the bottom), and so there is no mistake here that she is indeed a Permit - you can see she has the original Permit short sail, forward sail planes clos to the top of the sail. At the rear the vertical fins are easily visible too. Ok so she obviously had these at her life's end, but any other details would be great. Am wondering if any other Permits had these fitted too?


[IMG][/IMG]

Best

J

[Nuke Power]

John,
Your gonna have a hard time with this one buddy. They did alot of testing on this class of boat. Infact there was a squadron of subs dedicated to modification and testing for the future. Alot of the developments you see in the virginia classes were beta tested on them. To ask if some of them had the vertical stabilizers would be an easily answerable yes. To say which ones would be a bit more difficult. Most of the info from these is still not released or hard to find on the net as far as I can find. I really like that photo though. It shoes so many different classes visibly in the water and you can even make out towed array housings and tubes and so on. Very nice.

[Slats]

Thanks mate,
do you know what the vertical fins on Sturgeons were officially called?

J

[Nuke Power]

The vertical stabilizers?

[Slats]

That's what I thought, but have also been told they held PUFFS too.
J

[Slats]

Indeed if they are simply stabilisers does anyone know why the Sturgeons needed them when the LAs did not?

J

[redboat219]

Indeed if they are simply stabilisers does anyone know why the Sturgeons needed them when the LAs did not?

J

I may be wrong but I think they're the precursors to the anhedrals on the LA class.

[Nuke Power]

damn john you and the questions. I dont know the answer but youve got me curious now.

[Slats]

damn john you and the questions. I dont know the answer but youve got me curious now.

yes pesty aren't I.

Was thinking that David might know something about this given his USN sub service (perhaps not on this class)?

J

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

yes pesty aren't I.

Was thinking that David might know something about this given his USN sub service (perhaps not on this class)?

J

Didn't serve on the class (I was on TENCH and 616 class boats), but my last decade in the navy was as a Diver, so I did a lot of ships husbandry work on them. Screw changes, flanges, security swims, dry-docking, that sort of thing. I Dove only one THRESHER/PERMIT class boat (a security swim in Italy) and it did not have any vertical stabilizers on it, nor have I seen in my research any boats of the class with 'em, though Kevin's observation about the DevRon boats makes sense -- one of those boats might have had 'em as a transitional evaluation as the 637's came after the 593/594's.

I designed the DALLAS and KANOVALOV miniatures for Red October and DID NOT incorporate those stupid vertical stabilizers. My Boss (Greg Jein) later told me that they added them after the Director complained that my drawings were incomplete because he saw a model kit (likely the awful Dragon 1/350 LA) with 'em, and if a big toy company says they should be there, then his miniature would have a set too. Yikes. I provided the studio (Boss Films, the effects house doing the miniature construction and shoot) with masters for the DALLAS sail, propeller (a story there!) and all appendages, the Boss guys under Jein's supervision built the hull and developed tools and parts from my work. I did not provide vertical stabilizer masters!

Getting back to the 637 class -- they have vertical stabilizers, likely because of the larger sail. I built trade-show models of the class with removable evasion device dispensers that fit atop them, one of my first jobs after retirement from the canoe club.

David,

[Slats]

Thanks David.
J