How To Adapt The 'New' 2.4gHz Gear To R/C Submarines

[Jocurran]

They shipped the FC-16 with ch 83 (40.835) crystals but I have since had them send me Ch90 (40.965) crystals as I did read somewhere that the Aussie ch83 was actually 40.830 not 40.835 if that makes any differance.
I'm trying to work out how to set up the transmitter for the Skipjack and using one of the slide potentiometer on channel 5 for the motor

John Curran
Western Australia

[Slats]

Anyone think to ask Engel about the Future of RC sub radios? I can't see them tolerating a world without them.

[Slats]

From an Australian perspective I also thought that I was going to be having to use 2.4 gig and queried wether there was value in getting the full SAS Sub Driver or just using the lower cost Easy Sub Driver if only being able to go to periscope depth, but now I have a brand new 40mhz Robbe FC16 from Alexander Engel so am getting on with outfitting the SAS Sub Driver.
as an aside David did you manage to post me those parts I pm'd you about

Good man. What 40 MHZ freq do you have? Engel for a time where shipping to guys out here all the same one. Plenty of Futuba crystals still on the market though.
I have a spare F16C 40MHZ unit tucked away un-opened just in case the one I'm using should clag / die. I love Davids solution, but if I can't go to the Central Coast sub regatta and spend a full hour on patrol in the Olympic pool lurking 2-3m down, I'd rather not participate at all.

Best

John

[greenman407]

Your probably going to say DUH!, Dude but everyone whos interested in preserving what you already have in 75mhz had better keep your eyes pealed on EBAY for those older radios. I found a POLK with 3 receivers and bought it, checked for operation and then tucked it away for a future day, If and when my 6 year old Polk goes under.

[Jocurran]

From an Australian perspective I also thought that I was going to be having to use 2.4 gig and queried wether there was value in getting the full SAS Sub Driver or just using the lower cost Easy Sub Driver if only being able to go to periscope depth, but now I have a brand new 40mhz Robbe FC16 from Alexander Engel so am getting on with outfitting the SAS Sub Driver.
as an aside David did you manage to post me those parts I pm'd you about

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

So we just leave the other one in place and in the SD.

Ok

Yup. As simple as that.

As the two detectors are sampled many times per second, the one with the antenna in the SD will go dark as soon as LOS is lost between it and the transmitting antenna. Where as the one up in the sail will still be in LOS and that's the detector that will be feeding the decoder and the commands from there sent to the devices aboard the SD.

M

[Slats]

Replace one of the factory installed antenna/coax with the kit we now provide in every SD, and you're good to go.

M

So we just leave the other one in place and in the SD.

Ok

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Hi Mike,
there are some 2.4 GHZ Rx that have more than 4 channels that have a single antenna. The Planet RC range has these. http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/...receivers.html
Scroll down - they do 6 and 7 channel RXs. BUT these RC systems state they are for limited ranges. I use these in Targets, as I typically don't sail more than 80m away direct line of site. I use both the 6 ch and 7 ch units in surface boats with no range problems.

That said - I too want to understand how the 2 antenna RXs could be converted.

John

Replace one of the factory installed antenna/coax with the kit we now provide in every SD, and you're good to go.

M

[Slats]

David

You haven't addressed the 2 antenna receivers? Are you suggesting we only run on 4 channels?

Hi Mike,
there are some 2.4 GHZ Rx that have more than 4 channels that have a single antenna. The Planet RC range has these. http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/...receivers.html
Scroll down - they do 6 and 7 channel RXs. BUT these RC systems state they are for limited ranges. I use these in Targets, as I typically don't sail more than 80m away direct line of site. I use both the 6 ch and 7 ch units in surface boats with no range problems.

That said - I too want to understand how the 2 antenna RXs could be converted.

John

[Von Hilde]

No problems on the delay, Im kinda swamped with bizzy work here at the rock, and dont have much playtime. I was wondering about the Wfly8 75mhz situation tho. I thought they were still some available thru Mike, and one had been sent. Im not to concerned about it's arrival yet, I can wait a few days more. Ive got plenty to do on the hull to keep me going for a while. Its a might brisk this morning and the arthritis and old broken bones are kickin my ancient alien bedonkeydonk

[Kazzer]

David

You haven't addressed the 2 antenna receivers? Are you suggesting we only run on 4 channels?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Great tutorial Dave. I prity much had the general idea of the concept, electronicly, but not sure of the perameters of the box. I was wondering a couple things. The exposed wire at the end of the coax is waterproofed by the heat shrink, is the antenna. Is that liength criticle? Can I solder a brass periscope to the tip of the wire and waterproof the connection and scope with the sprey on waterproof vinal? I have brass tubing in my scope housings instead of the revell plastic. I would think there would be no direct interfearance with any of the extra metal in the boat, such as decks ect. I suppose I should get a better soldering iron than the antiques I have. Now if I ever get the Wfly I ordered......priority mail?....with another ez....hmmmmmm? somebody fell asleep on watch on watch up at the con, sir. I see the falls have frozen up in the great white north in kazzland, think that stuff is comming down to me in a slow boat? Maybe the sled dogs just dont want to go out.

2.4gHz receiver antenna length is VERY critical!

Yes, the exposed conductor with its insulation is the antenna. The heat-shrink and RTV serve to keep water out of the conductor and shield. You can substitute any conducting metal for the antenna, but it must be 1.25" long -- the wave-form of the 2.4gHz signal. And you have to keep this antenna from grounding out when it hits the water.

Don't over-think this, Dave. Just RTFI and follow 'em.

Your SD's are sitting on my work table -- I differed sending them till I had the 2.4gHz antenna instructions and alteration kits were ready. They are, and they go out to Caswell today. Sorry for the delay. Product enhancement is the delay issue this time.

This is a one-horse shop, and I'm dancing as fast as I can, guys.

M

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David an excellent and timely essay, however can you tell us what the story is in the US with availability of traditional lower frequency radios. Mike I know you were doing W-FLY radios.

Have these dried up? I can still (for now) buy Radios that are legal here in Australia via Engel subs in Germany.

No matter what the current supply issue, the article is timely that the end of these ideal lower legal frequencies appears to be here. BUT also maybe this is an opportunity. David's article as per usual is excellent, but I think if we are to keep the hobby open to the new guy the conversion (albeit not overtly difficult if one follows the article above) is an extra layer of complexity and might be for the newcomer a bridge too far. Furthermore, I think I'd rather not sail at all, if the rest of my hobby is spent restricted to PD.

Surely a cheap Chinese supplier could be found for a dedicated FM / PPM Submarine radio. Pick maybe three - four bands that could cover Legal frequencies almost everywhere. 75MHZ -US, 40MHZ / 35MHz UK / Germany / Australia + another

Chuck in China might be a good point man for manufacturer. In terms of minimum start up volumes - I'm quite sure with the right International marketing and price, the small sub community which is all in the same boat could order enough. David / Mike how about it? - A dedicated Subdriver radio set?
Keep the manufacture out of David's hair. You don't need another product line to clog up the works.

I'm noticing that there seems to still be an endless supply of RXs on channels that are legal in Australia and Europe. Is this the case in the US?

Best

John

The availability of American r/c systems on the lower frequencies is at club raffles, on Ebay, and at yard and estate sales. The last of the 75mHz WFly r/c systems were sold months ago. No more. Only r/c systems Mike can get out of China now are the 2.4gHz ones.

I failed to mention that my article is a copy of an instructional pamphlet I prepared. This pamphlet will accompany the coaxial cable and watertight gland that will be provided with all subsequent SD systems. This 'enhancement' of the product line acknowledging the fact that future customers will likely be using 2.4gHz gear.

Mike has worked long and hard to maintain a source of the 75mHz gear -- up until very recently he had been assured by our primary source of r/c systems, WFly, that they would continue production of that gear. Last year they dropped the bomb with a simple, no nonsense notice that all future systems would be on the 2.4gHz band. No warning. Nothing. Mike has looked for other sources of r/c systems we can use, but to no avail. So far, if you want a lower frequency r/c system that does not require an FCC license, you are out of luck -- I, of course, speak from the American perspective. I can't speak for the r/c system situation in other countries.

Tim Senecal (a tinkerer of the first-order) has done excellent work identifying producers and applications of the little known 433mHz r/c systems. Seems this band is being exploited by the virtual goggle flyers out there in r/c vehicle land. A spin off of that gear -- that is of interest to us -- has been the availability of transmitter RF modules and receivers that permit conversion of our old transmitters (those that accept removable RF modules) to the 433mHz band. Tim has written extensively about his experiences with this alternative gear, and he reports that it works fine with the deep running r/c submarine. So, in the absence of the 27-75mHz gear we all have become accustomed to, Tim may have found us an alternative. The fly in the ointment is the need to pass an FCC operators exam before you can transmit on this band ... that added layer of complexity you talked about, John.

As to Mr. Caswell financing his own line of 75mHz transmitter-receiver systems. He's already looked into it with WFly and other manufacturers. Not going to happen. Too much money to start it up with way, way too little market to justify the expense. And here's a thought: in the absence of AMA and other organizations lobbying efforts, I fear Congress will soon permit the FCC to auction off the lower bands to other RF product interests -- the 27-75mHz bands may become illegal to us toy drivers in the future.

From a selfish perspective: The added complexity and difficulty presented to those wishing to get into r/c submarining is a fine way to keep the 'Sunday-driver' RTR r/c submarine idiots away from the pond. 'Drone' flying idiots are one step away from getting the government to further restrict ALL r/c aircraft flying. It can happen to us too. How many of you have had to share the lake/pool with idiots recklessly driving their RTR speed-boat over your submerged submarine with little regard as to courtesy or rules-of-the-road? Government has an easy answer to the 'safety' issue when it's raised about r/c vehicles. That answer will be a law to prohibit ALL of us from enjoying the hobby.

But, from a business point of view, John, I see your point. As this game gets ever harder to get into, there will be fewer customers to support the manufacturing end of the game.

M

[Von Hilde]

Great tutorial Dave. I prity much had the general idea of the concept, electronicly, but not sure of the perameters of the box. I was wondering a couple things. The exposed wire at the end of the coax is waterproofed by the heat shrink, is the antenna, itself. Is that liength criticle? or is the total overall liength, the factor? Can I solder a brass periscope to the tip of the wire and waterproof the connection and scope with the sprey on waterproof vinal coating for marine switches? I have brass tubing in my scope housings instead of the revell plastic, which may come in contact with the metal scope. Will that have any bearing onthe preformance? I would think there would be no direct interfearance with any of the extra metal in the boat, such as decks ect. I suppose I should get a better soldering iron than the antiques I have, or at least some new, finer, tips. Now if I ever get the Wfly8 I ordered......priority mail?....with another ez....hmmmmmm? somebody fell asleep on watch on watch up at the con, sir. I see the falls have frozen up in the great white north in kazzland, think that stuff is comming down to me in a slow boat? Maybe the sled dogs just dont want to go out. Annyway, I dont know why peope think the low freek transmitters are illeagle, there just old concept. Same as an old car with a distributer and carburator and no emmission equipment. They dont make em anymore because the became extinct and have new laws governing viehicles being produced, now. You still can operate them if you can buy the fuel that they were designed for. A case in point is my hot rod. It wont run on the new ethinol pump gas. It has many modern up graded preformance parts, such as disc brakes which were adapted to fit the car, and a nice digital instrument package and sterio, but The engine is a total "Old School" high preformance, hi compression 400+ HP V8 that requires hi octain leaded fuel to operate at its optimim leavel. However I ocasionaly drive the monster on the street and cant just pull up to the pump at the airport or boat ramp and put it in the tank. That is illeagle to put in an over the road viehicle, acoarding to the US DOT laws, reguarding fuel in viehicles. However there are options to make the available fuel work, by adding addatives to boost octain. That stuff has lables that say,"Not for street use" but.....I drank from the water hose, back in the day, so I'm "Grandfathered in" as they say. ******t Jannett!! Im puttin a hemi on that skate board, I dont care what they say. I grew up with E J Potter and Art Arfrons [oops I said a bad word]

[Slats]

How about fundraising a synthesized dual conversion 8 ch RX with integrated programmable failsafes a couple of switches built in?

Yes what David said, why?

Our current FS equipment is fine. You can buy RXs. The whole point of the article is that Radio units (specifically TXs) on legal frequencies are facing extinction. Hence why we need to consider a 2.4GHZ conversion that we can mount in our subs.