-
-
Ok Mr. Drama Queen. Looks very nice. I hope he sells a kit. You have a SD that would work in it?Comment
-
LOL. Hellloooooo, SkyNet
Yeah. This one, if he keeps the wall thickness down below 3/32": http://www.sub-driver.com/sub-driver...model-kit.htmlWho is John Galt?Comment
-
Tugfan, although I'm enjoying his work i must concur with HWSNBN. Once we lose the ability to work with our hands we will be robot fodder.
Butlerian jihad anyone?Comment
-
I do not agree.
You are using materials that are relatively modern right now. CA, plastic tubes, epoxies, resins that did not exist a few decades ago, are being used now. Is anyone saying that is not real building. Rubber material that was unheard of way back when, we use it for molds. Why are we all not building with wood planks? Because we adopted new technologies. Where would we be without them? What? goat stomach for a ballast bladder? Even more recent, the electronics have substantially changed, now we can build subs that would have been impossible a decade ago. So when the technology gets to the point that you can program a course for your sub, are you going to say that's not running a sub?
For me, 3D printing is a tool, that is all it is. Hammer, CA, polycaronate tube, 3d printing, tools that is all. It is the individual that can take the tools and make something. It does not end working with your hands. It does not end an era, but begins a new avenue for creativity. It may even allow more to get involved. It certainly will allow more unique subs. I think of Chad's Anime 505. He is still learning all the other skills that go with running a successful sub. A 3D printed hull is no different than buying a plastic model sub kit like the Gato. It still needs work done to it.
What is being used to create a 3d model or part for your sub is your mind! That is good. It is definitely a different skill set, not a replacement. I think of Bob and the work he is doing on his Type VII. I do not think anyone here would argue that Bob is losing the use of his hands because of a 3D printer.
Until the big one hits and as long as electrons continue to flow, I will support any means to get more subs in the water and people involved in subs.
(stepping down from soap box)
Peace,
tomIf you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.Comment
-
I agree with Tom, use technology as it comes along years ago cars like the E-type and the Cobra were, in their day the absolute pinnacle but today we have cars such as the Veyron, Ferrari F12 etc. During the early 40's there was a bit of an issue and for a few years a real struggle against the Uboat in the atlantic look at the boats now the boomers can lob there ordnance a lot further than the Uboat but they were/are both effective in their own way even though the tech gulf is huge. The current crop of big plastic subs type 9, type 7, the Gato, the superlative Moebius Skipjack are all here because of modern casting tech, these subjects were unheard of when I got into the hobby 15/16 years ago, and they all fill the pages here.
PeterComment
-
Pete and Tom offer up the virtues of the 'new' fabrication technologies -- 3D printing, CNC machining and other computer directed replicators -- without identifying (if they are even aware of) the debilitating effect these machines are having on humans.
Fending off my criticism of such replicators, Tom offers up the old canard: if one embraces the new resins, mastering substrates, and tools -- yet complains of such advances --then he should never have embraced any tool more recent than the spoke-shave. Yes, I've encountered this argument many times. Basically it's the, "well, if you want to go back to the basics, why don't you grow your own bamboo, weave your own string, and boil down horse hooves as glue?" line
I use the term 'Craft' to describe the man-involved process of (be it bamboo and Flint, or dense polyurethane pattern making board and band saw) document acquisition and interpretation; materials selection; lay-out; fabrication; and finishing to produce the desired item. The practice of Craftsmanship! This of course requires one to acquire many different talents and to employ them with considerable thought and skill -- this involves hard work and dedication.
I would be fine with replicators only if there is the continuation of the schooling and maintenance of the professional (apprentice-journeyman-master) organization dedicated to the Craft of pattern/master/model-making that extends down to the High-School level. There is not. Not in this country.
Hard work, dedication, and fidelity are not honored in our society today. The embracement of replicators by hobbyists is a symptom of this breakdown. The new crop of citizens are not held to the old standards -- they have changed the standards, they have 'dumbed' them down. Today there is virtue in being a know-nothing, backward hat wearing, government cheese eating idiot; an idiot who can tell you the names of the judges on America's Got Talent, but can't name their States Governor.
Watching TV is easy. Going to school or apprenticing under a Journeyman or Master is hard work.
Building a credible model with your hands is hard, exacting work. Hitting the 'enter' button on a replicator is easy. And that 'creativity', that putting what's in your mind into the machine, Tom? No, you Easter-egg the menu, pull down what you want, and paste the results into the file later used to magically make your model. You don't even have to know how to draw orthographically or isometrically!
We individuals today, don't make things. We consume things. The 'builders' are in ever decreasing numbers. Soon there will be none left. Our dumbed-down, lazy society has not only fostered the breakdown of the family; it has, through government schools, led to the dumbing down of our citizens. They no longer wish to go through all the hard work of understanding 'why'. Worse than that, the shop classes are gone, replaced by Black History Month ... every month of the frig'n school year!
Hard work and accomplishment are laughed at; idiot women with big butts are put on pedestals.
Why embrace a craft when Welfare checks and replicators can take care of your every material need? Why take the time and effort to create when you surround yourself with a posse of like thinking morons who will validate and approve of your most stupid of statements or actions?
We've lost our Standards. No ... now that I think of it ... we have not. We have replaced them.
It's ironic: I'm blasting you, a guy who does understand the basics of model building. Rather, I'm blasting your son and daughter. Are they not the mechanical idiots and social incompetents I described above? We did that to them. We and the society we structured for them. Replicators are but one of the ways we've done that.
SkyNet, call your office. They're ready.Last edited by He Who Shall Not Be Named; 01-24-2015, 10:06 AM.Who is John Galt?Comment
-
My respect for you is huge and I recognize I am not a master like you are (few are). So me making my stance is like a student telling a statistical math teacher that I do not need to learn this stuff for my life. Maybe it is true, but maybe it is not.
Shunning new technology can also be seen throughout history. I remember an article from an archeologist that was talking about the rejection of technology when the wax tablet was replaced with a slate and chalk (something like that). Just because it is an old argument, does not mean it is not an accurate point. :-)
Well you jumped to the end of the process. You skipped the whole portion of finding reference material, working out scale, adding components (that you had to create), and knowing how to use the tools to draw out every bit of the sub. To make a point that would be like me jumping to the conclusion that you have no skills because you just pour resin into a mold. Where is the skill in that? We know the truth that is bogus and over simplified. Creating a 3d drawing is not easy or simple. Much like any tool it does become easier when you put time in.
In so many ways this is true. Does it apply here? It could, but I will go back to say it is just another tool.If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.Comment
-
I respect your arguments, not only on the face of them. But also because they come from a guy who has worked both sides of the equation. I always appreciate and look forward to your comments, Tom. Few I hold in such regard (and the list gets smaller as my peers die off).
I'm not shunning new technology. I'm bemoaning the fact that as we embrace the 'machines' we are dropping our understanding and ability to manipulate our physical world with our bare hands. We have simplified what we deem important to learn and practice. Look about you in any public gathering -- how many are lost in Twitter-world? A place where self-esteem and validation of little-things is all important. Machine assisted moral masturbation.
The technological horror is on the horizon -- It will be a place where we will fight and kill each other for food, shelter and water. When the lights go out, who will have the skills and character to survive?
Who is John Galt?Comment
-
I am 36, I don't have a twitter account. I do not even have my own mobile phone, the one I use was supplied by my job.
My favourite modelling tools are the old fashioned needle files, can be used for lots of different applications and my pin vise.
As for the apocalypse my love for and practice of Karate (look at my profile picture , top left ) will hopefully make it more like a field trip !
I didn't grow up in a engineering enviroment so am learning how to do stuff now and the modern technology we call the net is helping me do that, especially as I am at least 3000 miles from a lot of you .
All the best ,
PeterComment
-
Hey Peter! Howsabout some more of those hard to find pictures that you seem to have a penchant for finding?IT TAKES GREAT INTELLIGENCE TO FAKE SUCH STUPIDITY!Comment
-
Don't worry about Dave. He makes everyone mad and has been banned from more forums than smallpox killed. He's a great model builder, but he knows it too. That is a conflict. But, he's still a good guy. Even though he would **** off the Pope.Comment
-
There will be always some contradiction about using 3D printing technoligy, some guys hate it, others love it, for me personally it does not matter, as long the goal is getting a working model.
I do understand Tom and David each with their own arguments, i tend to be at David's side, must be the age, don't have the patience to stay at the screen for creating something.
I do agree with David that before playing with the stuff you need to know how things work, at least understand why things are happening, this i always learn to the young guys which has to work with me, you guys will be amazed how many people are depending on a laptop to get things going, this old fart is still quicker by pushing the right buttons which keep them baffled.
But i do think like Tom that replicators will be a part of the future, as long people combine both ways in creating a working model craftship won't go down the drain.
Just my two cents
Manfred.I went undergroundComment
Tweet
Comment