Introduction and new Sub project

[Subculture]

Well I think modelmakers tend to copy one another, they look at what the other chap has done, and assuming it works, mimic it- monkey see, monkey do.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

(insert monkey sounds here)

[Lash151]

Well I think modelmakers tend to copy one another, they look at what the other chap has done, and assuming it works, mimic it- monkey see, monkey do.

And there was me thinking a would go for the difficult approach and scratch build a sub..... and you all said ...don't do it!
Lee

[Slats]

And there was me thinking a would go for the difficult approach and scratch build a sub..... and you all said ...don't do it!
Lee

We're still saying that.
J

[Subculture]

I never said don't scratchbuild. but you shouldn't enter into this hobby thinking it's going to be a cakewalk. Subs are hardwork, and even if you do everything right, you can still fail. I've seen plenty of scratchbuilds, but generally they're built by people from a technical background.

I'm afraid we got a lot of people come onto forums like this, ask a ton of questions, say they're going to build this, that and other, then disappear like a fart in the wind.

By all means have a go, I advise you get the Model Submarine Technology book by Norbert Bruggen, which is published by Traplet. No model submariner should be without that publication. It gives you all the principles you require to successfully construct a pressure hull.

[Lash151]

Hell no, I don't think its going to be easy... I have thought about subs for ages and not dared to get involved... I have had the book you mentioned for a long time and have read through it many times.... I do like to make scratch built models though and that's why I was keen to go in that direction... I am presently drawing up plans for a Surcouf.... mainly because I Enjoy drawing plans but I am still tempted to build this in styrene.... please don't beat me up for thinking about it!!
Lee

[trout]

Do it....
You know those beauty contests were everyone congratulates the winner, but secretly kicking the winner in the shins? It is the opposite here. We will kick you in the shins publicly, but really applaud and encourage you all the way.

My first sub was not the easiest, well shoot neither is my second, so go for it. I know that desire that lingers. We are here if you need help and I would encourage you to start a Work In Progress here. Two reasons, others will learn from you and it helps others to keep you motivated (like the kick in the shorts) as you to work things through. It really is a great group of people here.

[Lash151]

Thanks Trout, I appreciate the encouragement... i shall continue with my drawing!
Lee

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Put the pencil down! Get the recommended 'starter' r/c submarine kit! Assemble the damn thing! Run it! Get to know the do's and don't of this game. And then... and only then ... will you come to appreciate how hard it will be to get that top heavy, crummy turning, hard to access, ugly POS French gun-slinger to work as an r/c submarine! If you still have a hard-on for that brute, contact Dennis DeBoer for his kit of that beast http://www.deboerhulls.com/ He's got the tools, but does not list the kit in his current catalog. Styrene is not recommended for the topside areas of your boat -- it's density is very high, and the stuff will creep on you if left out in the hot July sun for any length of time -- go with GRP or Sentra.

[Slats]

Put the pencil down! Get the recommended 'starter' r/c submarine kit! Assemble the damn thing! Run it! Get to know the do's and don't of this game. And then... and only then ... will you come to appreciate how hard it will be to get that top heavy, crummy turning, hard to access, ugly POS French gun-slinger to work as an r/c submarine! If you still have a hard-on for that brute, contact Dennis DeBoer for his kit of that beast http://www.deboerhulls.com/ He's got the tools, but does not list the kit in his current catalog. Styrene is not recommended for the topside areas of your boat -- it's density is very high, and the stuff will creep on you if left out in the hot July sun for any length of time -- go with GRP or Sentra.

Lee

PLEASE do take the advice here from people offering it that have a proven track record in subs. That means - buy something first.
WHY?

Because sub hull construction with no prior experience in operating a sub means you could end up with a beautiful scale representation that is just not suited for the water.

A key example:
The Revell Gato kit is an excellent RC conversion kit and following methods established by guys with RC sub experience its a great running submarine.
That said, I have seen no less than 4 guys (all model boaters with **** hot skills), have a boat that is 100% unusable in the water.
All failed to remove the massive amount of excess plastic up high under the deck. Some then overcompensated adding heaps of keel lead. All ended up on the shelf or scrapped.

By all means its a free world so go for it, but they only way to learn this hobby is to do this hobby - that means learn the basics of a sub BEFORE you scratch build.

The advice you have been given so far on this board by people such as Dave Merriman, Andy (Subculture), and myself - represents about 60+years hands on operational experience. The three of us combined have used, modified, and developed just about all known ballast systems. And guess what we are still learning. I for one have no less than 15 subs built for myself and others, David's number would be a factor of four or more of that. I have gone to great lengths to politely and respectfully point out, your model boat experience / construction experience is just that. With subs accept the fact that your skill package is green. Construction effects how your sub will / won't work for you.

J

[Slats]

I never said don't scratchbuild. but you shouldn't enter into this hobby thinking it's going to be a cakewalk. Subs are hardwork, and even if you do everything right, you can still fail. I've seen plenty of scratchbuilds, but generally they're built by people from a technical background.

I'm afraid we got a lot of people come onto forums like this, ask a ton of questions, say they're going to build this, that and other, then disappear like a fart in the wind.

By all means have a go, I advise you get the Model Submarine Technology book by Norbert Bruggen, which is published by Traplet. No model submariner should be without that publication. It gives you all the principles you require to successfully construct a pressure hull.

Exactly. And Norbet's book is fantastic. Buy that.

[trout]

I can't argue with John. To be forthright I have been doing subs for 1 1/2 years, so I am offering naive information, so if they stress a different direction, I would seriously consider their advice.
Peace,
Tom

[Kazzer]

Oh! Boy!
In my own case, the first thing I bought was a badly formed Darnell Hull, then a badly put together WTC kit, with component parts that didn't fit.
I thought it would all be easy, and I had no real knowledge of r/c (still don't) or model making. I was wrong. I never got the hull right, and ended up converting the model to a surface runner. (It's a long story that I won't bore you with.)

Here's my take on a beginner making their own WTC.

I've admired the many boat builds displayed here, the engineering skills and sheer ingenuity, but most of those have been done by guys with an engineering background. I found it's ten times harder for guys like me who have a hard time finding the power switch on a lathe. Then there's those wanna-be's who are going to scratch build and do the whole thing, Subculture was right, they disappear like a fart in the wind.

But, I found my little niche, it's running the forum, and selling products. Finding 'stuff' and then offering it to HWSNBN for criticism is the best part. I usually end up with a roasting for missing some important angle on why that item won't work, but that's where I've learned so much. It's finding guys like Kevin McLeod, Slats, Hermill and Subculture (though I have no idea what he looks like - photos required) who are engineers and have that certain discipline.

My advice is buy something simple to construct and shove a Sub-driver in it.

Lets rate a few for you.

Revell VII lovely looking model, good in pool or pond, fiddly control linkages. hard model to convert especially the deck. Forget making a WTC
Revell Gato - lovely looking model, hard modeling work to convert to r/c.
Trumpeter Kilo. Easy model build except the control linkages are tiny and fiddly. No good in a lake - too small
Moebius Skipjack. Easy build, right size for pool and pond. Fast, sleek! Why are you looking at anything else?

By the time you've finished fitting out a plastic model like the $100 Skipjack, you'll have spent the best part of a grand. Can't afford it? Save your pennies until you can. Or, just get a cheap model - say Trumpeter Kilo or Seawolf and do a build. You'll only be $50 out and even if you screw it up and have to can the thing and start over, it isn't going to break the bank.