Introduction and new Sub project

[MFR1964]

Welcome to the subs Lee,

Listen to those guys, they are completely right, as for the initiation, this is only done by some nut chases during the darkest part of the night at hightide, from what i'm told, it has to do something with leather, rubber and King Neptune.

As for my advice to you, start simple, no gizmo's, and get your boat running.


Manfred.

[Lash151]

Thanks for all the advice... I suppose having the mentality of a model boat builder has led me to think that I will probably spend the next year or two building the hull...:biggrin: I hadn't really got as far as thinking about the internals. Sorry if I have approached this the wrong way, I hadn't intended to start by making all the usual boat builder mistakes!
Lee

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Mike: you gotta make John Slater's above screed into a sticky to head the forum! What a silver-tongued devil he is. I'm jealous!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

I seem to have touched a nerve with you all... I am just a model maker who gets excited by the challenge of building working models... Whether one genre is considered a branch of another is irrelevant to me... perhaps there is a secret ceremony or initiation I can undertake to prove I have renounced all that is above the water in favour of all that is below it.
Lee

You have not been greased yet, NQP -- you do not yet bear the mark of the Clan. You are unworthy! And don't dare make eye-contact with any of us till you pass your Board! Grab your coat-hanger and flashlight, Dink -- you have a lot to learn. Drink it all in, apply, succeed .... only then can you pass through these hallowed halls.

[Lash151]

I am beginning to see the error of my ways... The Trumpeter Seawolf is only £24.... thats cheaper than the materials for building a sub! I shall continue to read the threads on the forum.
Lee

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Good man! And don't fixate on our product line either -- there are other guys out there selling systems to animate that model submarine. Big Dave is one, and there's Mike's Sub-Works. Check them out along with our stuff. Recommended reading includes Norbert Bruggen's book and the articles here: http://vabiz.com/d&e/articles.html I was not able to scare you off. So, I'll tone it down a bit and, like the others on this board (and a few other forums as well) we'll drag you into a successful conclusion if you're willing to make the journey. Go get 'em, Tiger!

[Slats]

Go for it Lee!!!

We all want newcomers to succeed!!

J

[Slats]

Mike: you gotta make John Slater's above screed into a sticky to head the forum! What a silver-tongued devil he is. I'm jealous!

Yeah what ever...Get back to work you bum. I have MONEY to spend on the new 3" SD SAS - in fact I'll buy 2. Mike crack the whips on the head troll.

[Kazzer]

Here is a build that uses the sub driver, pvc pipe, and some styrene scratch building by Steve Neill.

Scott


1. A sub-driver is only made by David Merriman. It's his trademark.

2. Steve Neill and his efforts are NOT WELCOME on this forum. He was the main cause of an ongoing war.

Please do not post anything regarding him again.

I will ban people who post links to Neill.

[Subculture]

If you want a good no nonsense introduction to model submarines, you have to go a long way to find a better boat than a Sheerline Akula.

These are built like a tank, with a strong two piece GRP hull, and PVC based dive module. The ballast system is very straightforward, with minimal maintenance. I've seen a number of these working over the years, and they always perform well. The design has remained unchanged for over twenty years, so unlike some of the other boats in the range which have been tweaked, this design was right out of the gate. Note the accuracy of the hull is not on the same level as a Scale Ships Akula, hoever they work better than a scale ships Akula.

The proprietor Chris Cloak is based in Norfolk, so on your doorstep so to speak. The new price for one of his kits is about £600, however I regularly see them come up second hand for between £200-400, depending upon age, condition and what the seller believes them to be worth. A secondhand purchase may need a little refurbishment e.g. new batteries, seals etc. and probably a coat of paint, but will often come with a radio. All parts are easily obtainable for this boat, and inexpensive, replacement batteries are basic lead acid gel packs, so cheap and easy to source. To replace all the seals and the main battery would cost about £20-30. If the boat needs a new pump , they cost about £15-20.

They hold their value well (if purchased secondhand), so if you decide to move on from the hobby, or fancy a different craft, you can get your money back when you sell it.

[Slats]

If you want a good no nonsense introduction to model submarines, you have to go a long way to find a better boat than a Sheerline Akula.

These are built like a tank, with a strong two piece GRP hull, and PVC based dive module. The ballast system is very straightforward, with minimal maintenance. I've seen a number of these working over the years, and they always perform well. The design has remained unchanged for over twenty years, so unlike some of the other boats in the range which have been tweaked, this design was right out of the gate. Note the accuracy of the hull is not on the same level as a Scale Ships Akula, hoever they work better than a scale ships Akula.

The proprietor Chris Cloak is based in Norfolk, so on your doorstep so to speak. The new price for one of his kits is about £600, however I regularly see them come up second hand for between £200-400, depending upon age, condition and what the seller believes them to be worth. A secondhand purchase may need a little refurbishment e.g. new batteries, seals etc. and probably a coat of paint, but will often come with a radio. All parts are easily obtainable for this boat, and inexpensive, replacement batteries are basic lead acid gel packs, so cheap and easy to source. To replace all the seals and the main battery would cost about £20-30. If the boat needs a new pump , they cost about £15-20.

They hold their value well (if purchased secondhand), so if you decide to move on from the hobby, or fancy a different craft, you can get your money back when you sell it.

Agree Andy their boats are stunning.
Couple of the guys here run the Akula and 1/60 Trafalgars, but have added stern thrusters on the T's. - Yes agree dive system is stunning - hover etc, but the weight of the unit using SLA's is in my view is a bit ungainly heavy and caused maneuvering issues. I do think that there is also way too much lead supplied in their kits. It could be improved re-ballasting what was recommended / vs adding foam high and below the water line, which seems non existent in boats I've seen the guys run here. The tanks are also too boyuant in my view - hence that might be why there is a bigger lead requirement.

Their ballast system (sealed tank and pinch valve), I used for many years before I moved to Subdriver vented tanks. Going to a lower density battery solved a lot of problems for me - less mass momentum to overcome.. Yet my version of their system never had the reliability that they achieved. Their pinch valve was way superior to anything I could make up - bloody brilliant.

My weight criticism aside their boats are good for the beginner to get a good handle on all aspects of running and construction. They're very well detailed and are not going to break anytime soon. And yep you will get your money back on them.
If I hadn't super detailed the crap out of the OTW and added all the tiles, I would have bought the 1/60 T Boat myself.

J

[Subculture]

The design of these boats dates back to the early nineties. As such they were quite a coup back then, because noone had really come up with a model kit with such a high level of pre-fabrication, at least not in the UK, plus the dive module concept was quite novel- most model submariners were still using the watertight box system. So these kits did a lot to challenge the status quo.

The original models were developed by Dennis Cater under the company Eden model submarines. I believe he had considerable input from Nick Burge on the dive system, which was an attempt to produce a lower cost and simpler system than the compressed air version he developed, and that was also in production by a company called Craycraft.

Back then SLA's were really the only affordable alternative for high capacity battery packs. Lipo and Nimh were still in development and a long way off from commercial viability, and high capacity Nicads cost a blooming fortune.

Mini radio equipment was still considered to be a bit specialized, and thus very expensive, so any designs had to be able to use standard size equipment.

With the weight of the batteries and R/C gear to offset, plus the need for plenty of weight low down to stabilize the boat, a largish cylinder is required. Bear in mind that UK sub modellers consider the use of foam as a bodge-up for when you've miscalculated your buoyancy, or just built a bad boat.

When Chris took over the business from Dennis and renamed it Sheerline (named after his Austin Sheerline car BTW) he modified the Trafalgar and the Ohio kits to accept NimH batteries, which were slung underneath the cylinder, instead of the big SLA chucked up front. The Trafalgar moulding was also made thinner on the upper half, and braced to avoid it warping, to reduce top weight and further improve stability. This improved the handling of these two boats considerably.

[Slats]

The design of these boats dates back to the early nineties. As such they were quite a coup back then, because noone had really come up with a model kit with such a high level of pre-fabrication, at least not in the UK, plus the dive module concept was quite novel- most model submariners were still using the watertight box system. So these kits did a lot to challenge the status quo.

The original models were developed by Dennis Cater under the company Eden model submarines. I believe he had considerable input from Nick Burge on the dive system, which was an attempt to produce a lower cost and simpler system than the compressed air version he developed, and that was also in production by a company called Craycraft.

Back then SLA's were really the only affordable alternative for high capacity battery packs. Lipo and Nimh were still in development and a long way off from commercial viability, and high capacity Nicads cost a blooming fortune.

Mini radio equipment was still considered to be a bit specialized, and thus very expensive, so any designs had to be able to use standard size equipment.

With the weight of the batteries and R/C gear to offset, plus the need for plenty of weight low down to stabilize the boat, a largish cylinder is required. Bear in mind that UK sub modellers consider the use of foam as a bodge-up for when you've miscalculated your buoyancy, or just built a bad boat.

When Chris took over the business from Dennis and renamed it Sheerline (named after his Austin Sheerline car BTW) he modified the Trafalgar and the Ohio kits to accept NimH batteries, which were slung underneath the cylinder, instead of the big SLA chucked up front. The Trafalgar moulding was also made thinner on the upper half, and braced to avoid it warping, to reduce top weight and further improve stability. This improved the handling of these two boats considerably.

Wow nice bit of history there. I think all sub models have good development stories behind them.

Bear in mind that UK sub modellers consider the use of foam as a bodge-up for when you've miscalculated your buoyancy, or just built a bad boat.

Am a bit puzzled on the UK thinking re foam.
I fully agree Foam slapped into a hull can make it look like amateur hour, but if care is done you get a neat job. My first boats I aimed to be like the Sheerline setups of foam free, but after looking at superior handling equivalent boats I quickly realised that foam was essential in ballasting a boat not just for dived / surface states, but much more importantly maneuvering. A boat should be ballasted to support dived / surfaced states of course but done so at the minimum required stability level so as to make it handle well in the closed environs of pools etc that we run in.

J

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

This is top-notch reading. I see Nick Berge mentioned and I perk up my ears -- there was a Talent! He was doing WTC's long before I came onto the scene.

[alad61]

If I had my time again to pick a first boat to launch into rc subs I'd go with the Sheerline Akula. It can be literally in the water in a weekend and is a dream to run as is the Moebius Skipjack with David's sd & fittings kit is also an easy build and also a dream to run. Both boats are a breeze to balllast n trim and a good size to transport and store and easy on the eye too...

Just to put my two bobs worth...