Dynamic Testing Tub

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  • junglelord
    Banned
    • Jan 2009
    • 300

    Dynamic Testing Tub

    I had a thought....I have them often
    :p

    I love the SeaView. I am into all things that pertain to physics.
    I like to combine the two. I was reading the Debor report by Mr Merriman.
    CORRECTION! As I was preparing this article, working up an analysis of the cause/effect issues relating to the SEAVIEW's in- water performance - specifically, a study of the forces encountered by the canards/manta-fins at the bow as they cut through the high slip flow of water about the yaw axis, and the lateral and torsional forces these surfaces produce as a consequence of that water flow - I failed to correctly interpret a force-diagram.

    I lack the skill to employ mathematical analysis. Nor do I have the ability to instrument, record, and chart the forces on or near the body in motion. The magnitude of the forces acting on the body are unknown to me. However, I can and do ascertain direction and causation of those forces as a consequence of vehicle motion through the fluid. I graphically represent the vectors of force resulting from hull and appendage impingement with the fluid: diagrams, that when represented correctly, permit me to understand why the submarine behaves the way it does.

    I mistakenly inverted the direction of the torque moments present at the tips of the SEAVIEW's manta-fins. Which led to a flawed analysis, a dumb mistake, that led me to declare in this forum that the SEAVIEW's manta-fins exacerbated the unwanted, sometimes dangerous rolling turn. A wrong statement!
    I was thinking why has no one made a Dynamic Testing Tub?
    It would involve the use of red dye and a continual force of water from one end that could exit the other and the sub would be right in the middle.

    The sub would remain static held in position. The way the dyed water flowed over the sub would indicate clearly the way different R&D surfaces interfaced with the flow of water over the sub. Maybe too "deep" for RC but the military does it all the time.

    Just a thought
    Blah
  • toppack
    Rear Admiral
    • Nov 2008
    • 1124

    #2
    That Red-dye may do Strange things to your Bath-tub !!! :D LOL :D
    But let us know the test results.
    You Were going to do the testing Yourself, Correct? ;)
    Rick L.
    --------------------------------------------
    * Asking Questions is a 'Good Thing',
    Since Learning is Always a 'Good Thing' *

    Comment

    • junglelord
      Banned
      • Jan 2009
      • 300

      #3
      Another thought....it would never test a internal fixed vane.
      :p

      That requires field testing.
      I'll drink to THAT!

      This guys R&D Rc electric plane field testing is awsome
      We got Parkjet Plans, eBooks, and the best Forum. http://www.RCPowers.com/

      We have detailed information and an active Forum on our website homepage: http://www.RCPowers.com
      Last edited by junglelord; 01-31-2009, 11:45 AM.

      Comment

      • He Who Shall Not Be Named
        Moderator
        • Aug 2008
        • 12318

        #4
        I've done in-air flow studies with a stick outfitted with cotton strings (tuffs). The analog of flowing air to flowing water is close. These fluids react the same until you get into forces of a magnitude to significantly compress the gas (something a liquid is not going to do, to any meaningful degree). I conducted a study on the internal vanes of the FS-1's forward nozzles -- those vanes needed to straighten the otherwise downward flow if not corrected internally.

        I think video of that study was in the 'Building the Teskey Flying-Submarine' video marketed by CultTVman.

        David,
        Who is John Galt?

        Comment

        • junglelord
          Banned
          • Jan 2009
          • 300

          #5
          Originally posted by toppack
          That Red-dye may do Strange things to your Bath-tub !!! :D LOL :D
          But let us know the test results.
          You Were going to do the testing Yourself, Correct? ;)
          What I actually envisioned is a aquarium or such with clear sides.
          The tank would be a forced water stream from a bilge pump or such and would have an exit which routed the water back to the pump. The dye could be any colour, but I figured not blue...
          ;)

          Comment

          • He Who Shall Not Be Named
            Moderator
            • Aug 2008
            • 12318

            #6
            Originally posted by junglelord
            Another thought....it would never test a internal fixed vane.
            :p

            That requires field testing.
            I'll drink to THAT!

            This guys R&D Rc electric plane field testing is awsome
            We got Parkjet Plans, eBooks, and the best Forum. http://www.RCPowers.com/

            http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=brjQ_m...eature=channel
            Love his testing protocol! Change only one condition of the test at a time; measure, change again, measure ...

            David,
            Who is John Galt?

            Comment

            • He Who Shall Not Be Named
              Moderator
              • Aug 2008
              • 12318

              #7
              Originally posted by junglelord
              What I actually envisioned is a aquarium or such with clear sides.
              The tank would be a forced water stream from a bilge pump or such and would have an exit which routed the water back to the pump. The dye could be any colour, but I figured not blue...
              ;)
              In no time at all the re-circulated water would become opaque as you continue to inject dye.

              Hey, you think you're the David Taylor facility or something?!

              David,
              Who is John Galt?

              Comment

              • junglelord
                Banned
                • Jan 2009
                • 300

                #8
                good point about the dye and the re-circulated water.....
                DOOH
                :rolleyes:

                Comment

                • redboat219
                  Admiral
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 2759

                  #9
                  Here's an article on flow visualization technique using polarized light.

                  Video:
                  High res: http://techtv.mit.edu/file/687/An introduction to some flow visualization techniques used at MIT. These methods help us understand the fluid dynami...


                  I remember reading a similar article in the Scientific American's amatuer scientist section few years ago.
                  Last edited by redboat219; 02-02-2009, 11:55 AM.
                  Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                  Comment

                  • toppack
                    Rear Admiral
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 1124

                    #10
                    I like the Polarized-Light method. :eek:
                    Cool Man Cool! :D
                    Rick L.
                    --------------------------------------------
                    * Asking Questions is a 'Good Thing',
                    Since Learning is Always a 'Good Thing' *

                    Comment

                    • junglelord
                      Banned
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 300

                      #11
                      The vortex is the archetype form. It is the shape of spiral galaxies and also of the propulsion of water spiders...ever wonder how a salmon can swim upstream> vortex forward momentum from his body....yeah his body makes vorticies that actually propel them forward, which is why they can seemingly sit in very fast water with very little effort and sit in one stop.

                      I love physics
                      I'll drink to THAT!

                      It would be cool to have a SeaView tested.
                      :p:cool:

                      Comment

                      • redboat219
                        Admiral
                        • Dec 2008
                        • 2759

                        #12
                        Originally posted by junglelord

                        It would be cool to have a SeaView tested.
                        :p:cool:
                        Not only the Seaview but also the Disney Nautilus and other Sci-Fi subs.
                        The test looks easy to reproduce.:p:
                        Last edited by redboat219; 08-15-2009, 11:42 AM.
                        Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                        Comment

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