Mr. Merriman's various kinds of torpedo launchers

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  • Sam Victory
    Commander
    • Sep 2021
    • 391

    Mr. Merriman's various kinds of torpedo launchers

    Mr. Merriman has considerable experience in building torpedo launch systems, which is a fairly long process. Going back more than half a year, I collected a lot of pictures that Mr. Merriman posted about his torpedo launch systems, which took me quite some time to figure out their firing principles, exact dimensions, fabrication process, etc.... Thinking about them was a bit mind-boggling, especially trying to guess the principle of one of the launchers with only a few vague pictures for reference. I've done some sorting (this is my guess) to list which stage each of these torpedo launch systems are in.

    Stage1:Six tubes shooter for the Thordesign Alfa sub.


    ​​ ​​

    Oh yeah, I was relying on those two pictures at the time, geez. One of the pictures is still rather blurry, really, and it took me over an hour to figure out how it fired. I was constantly sketching on paper, analyzing its structure and possible ways of firing, for which I contacted Bob about how such things work.... Fortunately, I finally figured out that the main principle is the ratchet intermittent motion mechanism, each time the push rod pushes , ratchet wheel rotates 60 degrees, the small metal rod will have a rapid "tap" to the poppet valve, poppet valve then release a small amount of gas to push the torpedo out of the launching tube and Of course, a pressure reducing valve may be needed to regulate the pressure. Later, when I watched The subcommitte 2000-2002 subregartta video where David described the principles of the Alfa submarine torpedo launch system, I realized that my suspicions at the time were correct.


    Stage2:Six tubes shooter for the Skipjack sub

    ​​

    There are two types of launchers here, the first one is pneumatic launch, the second one is mechanical launch. The reason why I think this is the second generation is because the poppet valve has been reduced from the original 6 to 1 (for the first launcher). Because there is no internal structure diagram, so the principle I can only rely on guesswork. I think the pneumatic launcher has a gas distribution valve, and every time the ratchet rotates, the poppet valve releases a small amount of gas, which enters the gas distribution valve and then exits through the 6 tubes in this way. Since the gas distribution valve and the ratchet, the "hitting valve" (for "hitting" the poppet valve) rotate coaxially, the gas is discharged from the six tubes in this way. The gas then pushes the "piston" to release the torpedo from the O-ring.I drew a side view of the gas distribution valve, and I think the structure might look like this, maybe not the same as the real structure, but the principle should be similar.



    The second model is a mechanical launcher, already has the prototype of the latest generation of launchers, relying on a cam that rotates and pivots the launch trigger, then a spring pushes the launch trigger back so as to get the torpedo out of the O-ring. This launcher has a locking mechanism at the rear, but no stop ball at the front.





    Stage3: 4 tubes shooter for the 1/96 Sturgeon sub

    This launcher is already very close to the latest launchers, with stop ball, a kind of safety locking mechanism. The launch principle relies on the cam hitting the "poppet valve" to eject a small amount of gas, which pushes the metal piston on the launcher, allowing the torpedo to break free of the O-ring. I do not know what the internal structure of this mini "poppet valve" is, perhaps inspired by the solenoid valve?



    The effect is similar to that of a ratchet, with a thin bent copper rod soldered to the paddle to prevent the "paddle wheel" (I don't know what to call it) from reversing. I think a non-reverse bearing could do the same thing(Only one direction of rotation).





    Stage4:The latest launch structure, I divided into three categories: a,b and c

    a:This torpedo launcher can be launched both mechanically and pneumatically,just change the firing trigger

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    b:This torpedo launcher could only be fired mechanically. A good example is the 1/72 Gato submarine. The launch principle I believe has been described in detail on Bob's website.

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    c: This torpedo launcher can only perform pneumatic launch. The principle has been described before.

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    Finally, I wish Mr. Merriman could allow me do so (I think it should not be a secret), this is also my experience after thinking about various torpedo launchers, thank you very much for Mr. Merriman's contribution in this regard.

    Sam

    Last edited by Sam Victory; 11-11-2021, 09:17 AM.
  • trout
    Admiral
    • Jul 2011
    • 3545

    #2
    Originally posted by Sam Victory
    Finally, I wish Mr. Merriman could allow me do so (I think it should not be a secret), this is also my experience after thinking about various torpedo launchers, thank you very much for Mr. Merriman's contribution in this regard.

    Sam

    There are many ways to describe David Merriman, the one description I would never use is secretive when it comes to his products or sub related. I would recommend hunting a little more through the forum and if you cannot find your answer, ask him directly. For that matter, ask an open ended question, many of us could help you. So, what are you asking for?
    If you can cut, drill, saw, hit things and swear a lot, you're well on the way to building a working model sub.

    Comment

    • Sam Victory
      Commander
      • Sep 2021
      • 391

      #3
      Originally posted by trout

      There are many ways to describe David Merriman, the one description I would never use is secretive when it comes to his products or sub related. I would recommend hunting a little more through the forum and if you cannot find your answer, ask him directly. For that matter, ask an open ended question, many of us could help you. So, what are you asking for?
      Nothing sir , just sharing my experience with Mr. Merriman's torpedo launch system, which has been missing as a product for many years, but I'm particularly interested in its principle and trying to figure it out on my own.

      Comment

      • He Who Shall Not Be Named
        Moderator
        • Aug 2008
        • 12256

        #4
        Just what is it you want to do, Sam?

        Your analysis of operation of the various launchers is pretty accurate. The system has matured over the years. I'm still working to perfect it -- specifically finding a way to slow the weapon down once in the water. I'm investigating several ways to throttle gas flow to the nozzle.

        Do you think you need my permission to employ anything I've presented? If so, let me clear the air: there is nothing I regard as proprietary to my launcher-torpedo work (or anything else, for that matter); you see a device or principle I employ that you like, use it! By all means.

        Some pictures did not present in your post, so I've provided a selection of launcher developments over the decades.
















































        David
        Who is John Galt?

        Comment

        • Monahan Steam Models
          Captain
          • Apr 2020
          • 755

          #5
          Amazing work David. You’ve built so many clever and beautiful launch systems. Can’t wait to see what you come up with next!

          Comment

          • SubDude
            Captain
            • Dec 2019
            • 803

            #6
            My mind is blown....

            Comment

            • redboat219
              Admiral
              • Dec 2008
              • 2735

              #7
              Would this work as a VLS?
              Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

              Comment

              • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                Moderator
                • Aug 2008
                • 12256

                #8
                Originally posted by Monahan Steam Models
                Amazing work David. You’ve built so many clever and beautiful launch systems. Can’t wait to see what you come up with next!
                I'm happy with the launcher proper. The final issue to resolve is a reliable, easy to manufacture means of restricting gas flow to the nozzle. I'm reading up on Reynolds Number and related topics that deal with attenuation of the flow of a fluid. The stand-pipe in the weapon and nozzle are so small I want to avoid complexity. I'm thinking a turn-around of the 'tuned-pipe' of high performance reciprocating internal combustion engines as a model -- something that will initiated internal shock-waves within the stand-pipe to limit the rate of flow of the propelling gas.

                ****! I wish I knew math and could follow such discussions.

                Common restrictions tend to ice-up (hello, THRESHER), so that has not been a viable solution. Still on the hunt.







                I want my 1/72 SKIPJACK shooting weapons next SubFest! Surface traffic will be so ****ed!!!! Juicy!

                Any of you brainiac's got ideas?
                ​​​​​​​David

                Who is John Galt?

                Comment

                • Sam Victory
                  Commander
                  • Sep 2021
                  • 391

                  #9
                  Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named
                  Just what is it you want to do, Sam?

                  Your analysis of operation of the various launchers is pretty accurate. The system has matured over the years. I'm still working to perfect it -- specifically finding a way to slow the weapon down once in the water. I'm investigating several ways to throttle gas flow to the nozzle.

                  Do you think you need my permission to employ anything I've presented? If so, let me clear the air: there is nothing I regard as proprietary to my launcher-torpedo work (or anything else, for that matter); you see a device or principle I employ that you like, use it! By all means.

                  Some pictures did not present in your post, so I've provided a selection of launcher developments over the decades.
















































                  David
                  My real idea, not a need...but a sharing, a sharing of my idea & thoughts, and I want to share my idea to people who are also interested in Mr. Merriman's torpedo launcher.
                  The following launchers uses a similar pneumatic launch principle
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                  The launcher in the picture below looks a little complicated, but in fact it is just a poppet valve soldered to the end, the poppet valve is connected to the gas tank, so that each time the torpedo is charged just by pressing the "button" on the poppet valve, it can easily charge the torpedo, replacing the long charging rubber tube ,which can save gas and let the torpedo get reasonable speed.

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                  The picture below is the 8-tube torpedo launcher I designed for the Russian Akula submarine. Yes, the inspiration was mainly the launcher of Mr. Merriman's Alfa submarine.

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                  I have a not-so-sophisticated idea on how to reduce the launch speed of the torpedo: Mr. Merriman's torpedo has a little resin on the end of the aluminum tube to reduce the exhaust volume. So I thought, what if I add resin to both ends of the aluminum tube? This way the gas will pass through the two parts of the resin in turn, for a twice “decompression”, I do not know if it will work.

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                  Sam
                  Last edited by Sam Victory; 11-11-2021, 11:49 AM.

                  Comment

                  • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                    Moderator
                    • Aug 2008
                    • 12256

                    #10
                    Damned good work, Sam. And I'm with you on placing a restrictor at the forward end of the stand-pipe. That's my next area of investigation. Great minds think alike, as they say.

                    David
                    Who is John Galt?

                    Comment

                    • redboat219
                      Admiral
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 2735

                      #11
                      How about a syringe needle?
                      Click image for larger version

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                      The plastic end acts as an expansion chamber. Click image for larger version

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                      Last edited by redboat219; 11-11-2021, 12:17 PM.
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment

                      • Sam Victory
                        Commander
                        • Sep 2021
                        • 391

                        #12
                        Originally posted by redboat219
                        How about a syringe needle?
                        Click image for larger version

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                        The plastic end acts as an expansion chamber. Click image for larger version

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                        I think changes should be made without destroying the original structure as much as possible. Because Mr. Merriman's torpedo launcher he was satisfied with, it was not good to make changes to the torpedo launcher. Therefore the changes to the torpedo itself I think should be as small as possible (I mean the overall structure). Reduce the speed of the torpedo I think there are several points:
                        1. the pressure of the compressed gas itself can be smaller, R134 refrigerant (tetrafluoroethane) may be you can try, non-combustible, very safe for the human body. It is also a kind of gas for charging toy guns( they use compressed gas to shoot soft tiny bullet)
                        2. In the moment of torpedo launch, evacuate the ''excess'' gas.
                        3. inside the torpedo can have a better, simple and effective decompression device. Meeting the above conditions, the torpedo should be able to obtain a reasonable speed.

                        Comment

                        • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                          Moderator
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 12256

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sam Victory

                          I think changes should be made without destroying the original structure as much as possible. Because Mr. Merriman's torpedo launcher he was satisfied with, it was not good to make changes to the torpedo launcher. Therefore the changes to the torpedo itself I think should be as small as possible (I mean the overall structure). Reduce the speed of the torpedo I think there are several points:
                          1. the pressure of the compressed gas itself can be smaller, R134 refrigerant (tetrafluoroethane) may be you can try, non-combustible, very safe for the human body. It is also a kind of gas for charging toy guns( they use compressed gas to shoot soft tiny bullet)
                          2. In the moment of torpedo launch, evacuate the ''excess'' gas.
                          3. inside the torpedo can have a better, simple and effective decompression device. Meeting the above conditions, the torpedo should be able to obtain a reasonable speed.
                          RedBoat's syringe needle is being explored. And your thought about R134 had not even been considered -- I'll do that this week. Good stuff.

                          David
                          Who is John Galt?

                          Comment

                          • Sam Victory
                            Commander
                            • Sep 2021
                            • 391

                            #14
                            Originally posted by He Who Shall Not Be Named

                            RedBoat's syringe needle is being explored. And your thought about R134 had not even been considered -- I'll do that this week. Good stuff.

                            David
                            Thank you Mr. Merriman!
                            There are many refrigerants used to charge toy guns, such as R134a, R22, R290. R134a is the one with relatively low pressure. It is non-toxic, harmless, and non-flammable, safer than butane, so I suggest trying R134a.



                            The following picture of the gun is I used someone else's.
                            I am not interested in firearms.

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                            Sam
                            Last edited by Sam Victory; 11-11-2021, 08:21 PM.

                            Comment

                            • He Who Shall Not Be Named
                              Moderator
                              • Aug 2008
                              • 12256

                              #15
                              Sam,

                              I'll pick up a can of the stuff tomorrow. I'll compare its room temperature pressure with the other Propellants I've tried. Will keep you informed.

                              David
                              Who is John Galt?

                              Comment

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