New 1/144 Revell sub kit r/c conversion packages for 2010

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

You're a big help! No sympathy here, that's for sure.

Since this boat is not using gas -- with it's occasional over-pressure of the hull -- the forward and after flood-drain holes are adequate; water has plenty of time to get into and out of the hull during the surfacing/submerging transitions.

You can build this kit in either version: masts up or down, I went with the masts down for the reason you identified. More pictures tonight I hope. Yeah, you got to vent that bubble that would be trapped in the sail without the holes (of course, going with the 'raised scope' version provides those holes automatically). ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't.

David,

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Today's work on the 1/144 Type-214:

[Outrider]

More sympathy than you know... Your curse is that great work simply demands more of the same.

Great work on the non-skid application. Also makes a nice photo tutorial on masking. You nailed the look of crazed plexiglas over the navigation lights, which adds a lot of realism.

What's next?

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

More sympathy than you know... Your curse is that great work simply demands more of the same.

Great work on the non-skid application. Also makes a nice photo tutorial on masking. You nailed the look of crazed plexiglas over the navigation lights, which adds a lot of realism.

What's next?

Today the waterline down gets marine growth, critter mung, some bleaching and camel induced paint damage. I'll paint the propeller and attached attenuator gold, then will splatter it with darker browns till it has that proper oxidized look.

The 'crazed' Plexiglas look is just scratching from #600 grit sandpaper, most of it will go transparent again once I hit the dead-lights with a clear coat. As it will be a well flattened clear coat, the clear parts will get a bit milky -- that's the effect I'm looking for, anyway.

Tomorrow I'll start in on the vertical streaking, bird-poop (****!) deck scuffing and draft markings.

You rooting for the Greek's or the South Korean's? Pick a side and I'll make this model a representation of a boat for that navy.

David,

[Outrider]

No preference. Take your favorite or the one that's easiest to portray. I've just finished some research on the 214s. Here's what I found:

Looks to me like the RoK is in the lead for actually building their subs, paying for them, and putting them into commission. Kinda gives you something to work with...

The Greeks contracted for one 214 to be built in Germany that is also well photographed--the Papanikolis. This one seems to be on offer to a good home at the moment. Three other 214s were built/are being built in Greece. There's clearly some turbulence regarding performance and payment that's keeping the lone German built unit pierside in Germany. (No way that I'm picking sides on this.) But there does seem to be plenty of info on the Papanikolis, and the idea of a stateless sub seems kind of apt for this design.

The Portuguese are likely to get their 214s before the Greeks do. One (Tridente)was supposed to be commissioned this month, but I can't find any confirmation that it's now in Portuguese service. There are plenty of photos of it under construction, though.

[Markos1388]

I have been keeping my eye on your build for some time as I too have the 214 from Revell trying to convert to RC, anyway Im rooting for the Greek Papanikolis as I am Greek. The Korean version I think is a bit greenish in colour so its a bit of a waste now you've painted it black.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Then we'll go with the red-headed, *******, step-child rubbing up against a pier in Dutchland.

CHANGE THAT! With the recent dope received from Marcos, I'm going with one of the Greek boats.

David,
________
Vapir Oxygen

[Markos1388]

A few pics I found of the Papa if you find any use for them:

________
Herbalaire

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

A few pics I found of the Papa if you find any use for them:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]2662[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2663[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]2664[/ATTACH]

Oh, man! You're a life-saver. I delayed one day the below waterline weathering and was feeling bad about it. Now, I'm glad I got delayed. Your three pictures are perfect resources for what I'll do. Very thoughtful entry, and a big help to me.

Why does this boat have 'KIEL' on the boat? That's a German yard, is that where it was built?

David,
________
BUY AIR ONE VAPORIZER

[Subculture]

Blohm and Voss make the 212 and 214's, Dave.
________
APPLE GAMES

[Markos1388]

The Greek Navy has ordered three Type 214 submarines. The first, Papanikolis (S120), was built at the HDW Kiel shipyard and was launched in April 2004. As of April 2008, the Greek government has refused to accept delivery of the vessel ( this was due to the sub leaning to one side when surfaced at about 50 degrees, this was proved by the Greek captain onboard during sea trials took a picture with his phone through the periscope, so the greeks wouldnt take unles they fix it but the germans said theres nothing wrong with it) and a commissioning date is uncertain. The vessel successfully completed a further series of sea trials in September 2008.

The Hellenic Shipyards is building the second (Pipinos S121, launched November 2006) and third (Matrozos 122) vessels at Skaramanga. Hellenic Shipyards was acquired by HDW (now part of ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems) in May 2002. A fourth vessel, Katsonis (S123) was ordered by Greece in June 2002 and is expected to commission in 2012.Type 214 submarines for the Hellenic Navy are armed with the WASS (Whitehead Alenia Sistemi Subaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedo. The Black Shark is a dual-purpose, wirSubaquei) Black Shark heavyweight torpedo. The Black Shark is a dual-purpose, wire-guided torpedo which is fitted with Astra active / passive acoustic head and a multi-target guidance and control unit incorporating a counter-countermeasures system. It has an electrical propulsion system based on a silver oxide and aluminium battery.
(copy paste from another website)



Some more pics, Im glad my previus pics help. No front view pics sorry.


________
Vapir One

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Thanks, Andy.
________
RHODE ISLAND DISPENSARY

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Thank you for the pictures, Marcos. Good stuff. And the background info on the ship building program over there was interesting and useful.

David,
________
Toyota Classic Specifications

[Outrider]

Here's a little more background on the 214s...

They're built by HDW in Keil, Germany or, as a condition of sale, in other yards. Defense acquisitions often result in co-production arrangements because of political considerations. (Seems like nobody wants to buy from "some damn furriners".)

In many cases where HDW is involved the work is split, with the more sophisticated work often done in Germany (e.g. AIP propulsion systems), and the bulky work (e.g. welding, plumbing, wiring) done locally. In the Greek case, the first sub was built in Germany, and, as was already pointed out, the others built locally in Greece. BTW, as a condition of the 214 program sale to Greece, HDW bought Helenic Shipyards, which is the yard building the remainder of the Greek Type 214s. The Greek Navy wants to commission the Greek built Type 214s, but since HDW owns the Greek shipyard this may be a problem as long as the Papanikolis situation remains unresolved.

HDW thinks Papanikolis is ready to go and wants the remaining money as specified by the contract. The Greek Navy seems to view the Papanikolis as damaged goods, probably has some issue with late delivery, and seems to have already paid 80% up front. Given the recent and ongoing concerns with the Greek deficit (which is blamed by some as depressing the value of the Euro) this may not go well for the Greek Navy. (The Greek government needs to cut its deficit to satisfy its fiscal critics.)

On the other hand, it's tough to know what the market would be for the Papanikolis. The Germans are discriminating vendors, so some who would pay handsomely would probably not be given the chance to buy. (e.g. Taiwan). The few prospective European customers are having deficit issues, which means they would be bargain shopping. (e.g. Poland) Since the Greeks would get some portion of their 80% back, there's probably not a lot of profit potential for HDW. I'm surprised HDW hasn't just taken a big tax write-off, especially since a pier side Papanikolis can't inspire much confidence in the class. Put Papanikolis out in the Med, have it succeed in some NATO exercises, and watch sales grow. Leave it as a weathering study for the Wizard, and all of a sudden the competition to the Type 214 starts looking a lot better.

HDW is building at least three 214s in Germany for export. In many of the recent photos of the HDW yard in Kiel, you'll see the Portuguese Tridente out of the water and the Greek Papanikolis pier side. Both have "Kiel" painted on the sail. I assume this is because HDW owns the subs until they've passed their sea trials and are accepted by the foreign government. The subs are commercial or private vessels until they change hands, so they would need appropriate markings for a German ship.

The Portuguese 214s are a very interesting study in military acquisition. The Portuguese 214s are often listed as Type 209PN. This stems from a legal battle over the contract award, which HDW won. Many other nations competed for the contract including the Dutch, French, and Swedes. HDW offered the 209 and won the bidding, then upped the ante to the 214. (Don't know why the change was made, but it's hard to see why the Portuguese would object to the improvements.) The case went to court (the French sued), but the sale was resolved in HDW's favor in part because HDW called the subs 209s. It's very common for the losers to make legal challenges to any big ticket acquisition. (e.g. U.S. Air Force Aerial Tanker competition.)

Defects with the first 214 listed here: http://www.navyleague.org/sea_power/dec06-52.php

My sense regarding the defects is that there were some real problems, but at this point they've been satisfactorily resolved. Here's my thinking. Papanikolis was put in the water in 2004. The next 214 built was Son Won-il, which was commissioned in late 2007, followed by Jeong Ji in 2008 and An Jung-geun at the end of 2009. If the problems with Papanikolis hadn't been fixed, the Koreans would probably be raising a stink, too.

This means the Type 214 design itself is likely fine. There could be build issues with Papanikolis, though. Were I taking possession of Tridente , I'd also want to take Papanikolis for a test drive just to compare performance. If I were running HDW, I'd make sure that the Portuguese were happy with Tridente and that the Portuguese then served to validate that Papanikolis was working to spec. Lots of "he said, she said" here and some basis for genuine disagreement. Would be best to get a competent and disinterested third party involved.

As to the future of the Type 214, the Type 209s that form the bulk of Western sub exports since the '70s are reaching the end of their service lives. Most 209 customers seem happy with the product, so I'd expect nations are predisposed to go back to HDW for the next sale if they decide to replace their subs. Submarines are incredibly useful warships, especially in the context of economically defending against powerful surface fleets. Any nation that wants to actually have a Navy capable of defending its sea space from a surface based threat really needs to invest in subs like the 214 if they can't go nuke. It will be interesting to see how the Type 209s get replaced, because that's where the numbers are. No more stop-n-shop for ex-US Guppies waiting for a good home.
________
OREGON MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARY

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Wow! Very good info there -- As I'm sure with you and others, it's easier to get involved with a model kits assembly if you become cognizant of the prototypes origins, development, and service history. Thanks for the back-story, Jim.

David,
________
SUZUKI TS90