Lindberg Japanese wwii submarines

[toppack]

Mike,
Have you checked out both kits?
Do the Dive-planes look accurate enough to be modified to RC use, or do they need to be fabricated?
What about the Upper-Rudder?
Is there much difference in the 2 kit versions?

[Kazzer]

Mike,
Have you checked out both kits?

Umm! No! :)
These boats are floating around in the Pacific somewhere, bound for the US coastline. I'll let you know when they surface.

[Albion]

Andy,

With your new reference books are photos of the C type boats different than what's shown on the drawings below?

drawings look correct compared to photos i have. planes are ahead of the anchor well. they appear to retract in , but dont appear to have a guard over them like the kit does. I cant see them extended in any photo i have. looks like they open like scissors.

The earlier images you posted of I52 for example i believe is actually I152, hence the location of fins is behind anchor well. i have the same photo in B&W which is labeled as 152 not I52. same for the other two images i also have those in B&W as I171 & 156

[toppack]

Okay, I can see that someone needs to learn to read Japanese and take trip to Japan to get all this Confusion 'Straightened Out'. Do I hear any Volunteers? :D LOL

The symbol, on the tower, before the 2 digit numbers, does translate to an 'I' not a '1', Doesn't it? It's strange they would leave off the first '1' when painting the tower number? Maybe it was to confuse the Enemy? :D
I think some people may be mistakenly calling that symbol a '1', when they labeled the pictures?

[toppack]

Ah, I found out that I-71 was Renumbered to I-171 in May 1942. Maybe they did that on others as well?
See Link:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/I-171.htm

[toppack]

Yes, I found that Many of them were Renumbered.
See Info: (Example I-53 to I-153)

http://www.combinedfleet.com/sensuikan.htm

[Albion]

Yes, I found that Many of them were Renumbered.
See Info: (Example I-53 to I-153)
http://www.combinedfleet.com/sensuikan.htm

Yes appears so, however the photos are not of the C class boats

[toppack]

I found this Info about fate of I-52:
(very interesting)
Sunk by a 'Fido' sound seaking torpedo.
(I'm still not sure who ended up with the Gold?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_submarine_I-52

Evidently, It was Not Renumbered to I-152, since she was not built until after the renumbering of the others was done.

[Albion]

Okay, I can see that someone needs to learn to read Japanese and take trip to Japan to get all this Confusion 'Straightened Out'. Do I hear any Volunteers? :D LOL

The symbol, on the tower, before the 2 digit numbers, does translate to an 'I' not a '1', Doesn't it? It's strange they would leave off the first '1' when painting the tower number? Maybe it was to confuse the Enemy? :D
I think some people may be mistakenly calling that symbol a '1', when they labeled the pictures?

The I is definitely a Japanese style I.

I can read some Japanese but not that much, i will see what i can get translated on my next visit. But dont want to waste too much goodwill on superfluous stuff, so will try and keep it to the C boats only and not worry about the numerical clarifications on what are clearly B or KD boats

None of the C boats were renumbered. I think the gold is a myth, the tin rubber etc etc would be more useful to the german war machine than gold at that stage

[toppack]

None of the C boats were renumbered. I think the gold is a myth, the tin rubber etc etc would be more useful to the german war machine than gold at that stage

Are you saying that website Info is All Wrong?
What proof do you have that some were Not Renumbered, May 20 1942? They have exact date data of when they were changed. (evidently very detailed data)
Maybe it was 'really' done to confuse the enemy, to make them think they had more subs than they actually had?
There were good records kept of what cargo they carried and when. They were using the Gold to pay Germany for new Technology. Didn't they say the gold was recovered but not returned to Japan with other items?

[toppack]

Here's a list of the 'I' subs, I found, that were Renumbered May 1942:
53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 62, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 71, 72, 74, 75
(53, 55 were C3/C4 type, the others are KD3, 4, 5 & 6 types)

(I-176 was completed after May '42)
(60, 70 & 73 were sunk before May '42)
(A few of the 2 diget numbers were reused on later subs built after May '42.
Examples: I-54, 56 & 58, which were B3/B4 types)

There may be others that were renumbered.

[Albion]

Here's a list of the 'I' subs, I found, that were Renumbered May 1942:
53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 62, 64, 65, 66, 68, 69, 71, 72, 74, 75
(53, 55 were C3/C4 type, the others are KD3, 4, 5 & 6 types)

(I-176 was completed after May '42)
(60, 70 & 73 were sunk before May '42)
(A few of the 2 diget numbers were reused on later subs built after May '42.
Examples: I-54, 56 & 58, which were B3/B4 types)

There may be others that were renumbered.

I53 and I55 (the C3 / c4 version were not built until 1944 so they could not hav ebeen renumbered in 1942, so clearly the I53/I55 renumbered in 1942 were KD3A/B models, and irrelevent to this thisdiscussion.

http://www.combinedfleet.com/I-153.htm

http://www.combinedfleet.com/I-155.htm

I am not saying that website is wrong, it is very detailed and well researched, but you need to read it more carefully! I can honestly say I have read every page of that website looking for clues of locations for wrecks which sank in the south china sea.

As for the gold, there is probably a small amount of gold was carried, wages, port fees etc. Rumours of WW2 Japanese wrecks full of gold are everywhere, but none have ever been found to be full of gold. Unless i see evidence to the contrary i think you will find that the rubber and tin was far more valuable at that time to the german war machine than gold. both countires were exchanging resources and technology.

I go scuba diving, a lot of it on wrecks. At one time some friends lifted a lot of brass off one wreck in particular, offshore east coast malaysia. The authorities, if they saw it coming ashore, would have wanted money. so they brought it ashore wrapped in newspaper. If you ever find brass that has been underwater a long time it is covered in growth, but chipping away with a small hammer will remove the growth and leave very shiney brass underneath. For months after this brass was brought ashore the locals were convinced we had found a gold wreck and were bringing gold ashore because some shiney yellow metals were seen wrapped in newspaper. it was mainly portholes which look good on the wall ;), and that is exactly how these gold wreck myths blow up. Some gold was brought ashore, damm the wreck must be full of gold heading for nazi germany, those guys are rolling in it LOLZ.

[Albion]

Are you saying that website Info is All Wrong?

nope, i'm saying you havent read it correctly.

What proof do you have that some were Not Renumbered, May 20 1942? They have exact date data of when they were changed. (evidently very detailed data)

They have extreemly detailed data, except for the fact the grid locations are 1940's standards and not as accurate as todays GPS, this website is a real mine of gold. I have read every single TROM of every sub and ship on this site. However if you read the sections pertaining to the C3/4 models you will note they weren't built until 1944 so could not possibly have been renumbered in 1942:rolleyes:

There were good records kept of what cargo they carried and when. They were using the Gold to pay Germany for new Technology. Didn't they say the gold was recovered but not returned to Japan with other items?

The plan was to recover the entire conning tower, diplomatic pouches, gold, coding equipment, (Japanese and German) and more. The recovered items would be taken to New Orleans for cleaning, conservation, and corrosion treatment to prepare for an exhibition. Mandalay Bay Casino had offered $20 million for the exhibition. After three years in Las Vegas everything except the gold would be returned to Japan to be placed at the city of Kure in a permanent exhibition. [5] There are no full-size Japanese WWII submarines on display anywhere in the world; however, captured Japanese midget submarines are on display at the Admiral Nimitz Museum in Fredericksburg, Texas, at the USS Bowfin Museum Submarine Museum and Park, close to Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, and at the Australian War Memorial, Canberra.

The Japan Times, in an article dated 19 April 2005, reported that Tidwell intended to return to the site and raise the submarine in November 2005 or May 2006. However, as of 2008, Tidwell's plans have not been fulfilled.

Here is the pertinant wiki quote, wiki, of course being 100% absolutely true every single time NOT. The important parts are bolded. So no actual gold has ever been recovered. In fact in every single claim of a japanese wreck loaded with gold, none has been found!!! except small amounts that would probably be used in case of visiting neutral ports etc. Molybdenum, tungsten Tin rubber and other raw materials were far more valuable to the germans than gold. There are 2.2 tons of gold according to the more reliable combined fleet website, but that would not be stroed in the conning tower, and at the depth the wreck is located it would be impossible to reach the actual cargo

[toppack]

Okay, since they used the same number several times on different model types it was confusing. Thanks for clearing that up.
I think I-24 would be a good one to model since it's mini-sub HA-19 was the one beached and captured at Pearl-harbor. Have you seen any pictures of I-24? Was it identical to I-20, which the kit is supposed to be modeled after?

[herrmill]

I wouldn't get too anal over details like this. Afterall, this is a Lindberg kit which says a lot. I'd rather see the energy spent in lobbying Nautilus, IBS, Eduard, Lion Roar, etc to offer aftermarket kits to better detail this beast.

I-24 was the last of the C1 type so yes, it will be same as I-20.