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1/72 HMAS Rankin (Collins Class)

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  • 1/72 HMAS Rankin (Collins Class)

    Guys,

    High time on back on this project (this year).

    For those who might not be aware this project started some 3 plus years back.

    Initially I ordered a Defence Models and Graphics Collins - that was not to be so I ordered a 1/72 scale APS Collins class kit (which is has a completely wrong upper hull - a situation that Allan at APS models acknowledged some time back), and set about modifying it in late 2007.

    The main problem with the APS Models kit was the upper casing on Collins - it was too narrow not high enough and not round enough.

    I somewhat ambitiously decided to use a mix of materials to rebuild the upper casing (I supply photos later), using styrene and GRP. I came up with a dead on shape and dimensionally correct upper casing and upper hull, ambitiously thought about using this as the upper hull in the boat.

    As David aka God jumped in he said forget using it as the actual boats hull- use the upper hull as a master, make a mold, and do so in a timely fashion as what I had was a mix of materials that had all differing expansion properties (in fact styrene was underneath GRP). What happened next - the styrene expanded all on its own and cracks appeared everywhere before I could make a mold or add details to the master and then mold.

    I was disheartened and was going to chuck it, when Andy (Subculture) suggested I could save it. But disheartened and with Defense Models and Graphics now saying Collins was back on their radar I shelved the project......Then DMG refunded my money and I now 3 and half years after paying them still no boat. So I took Andy's advice and fixed the cracked master.

    I had previously contacted Allan at APS Models to get his permission to make a mold and one upper hull for myself. I contacted Allan again to let him know again of my re-interest in this and he assisted with the process.

    The result is I now have a superb correct upper hull half for my 1/72 scale Collins Class Submarine, HMAS Rankin.

    A big thank you to Allan at APS models, David for his no nonsense encouragement and Andy for putting some wind in my sails.

    This year I hope to have this boat put together and sailing.

    The upper hull half is pretty much devoid of details. I found the master I made very unstable and as you can see it pretty much ****ted itself after the mold was made.


    Here you see the upper GRP hull produced from my master and mold sits on top of the lower APS GRP hull. The middle upper hull is the master. The mold is in the front of the picture.



    Next is a close up showing the now rather had it master and mold



    Finally a shot of inside the mold



    John
    Last edited by Slats; 03-29-2010, 09:50 PM.
    John Slater

    Sydney Australia

    You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
    Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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  • #2
    Nice, NICE work, John!

    People: You have no idea how long and hard John has been at this project. When I first hooked up with him I thought he was just another anal-retentive, 1/72 freak over there in OZ land. But, as you can tell from his writings, he's also pragmatic when he has to be and follows through, no matter the problems presented by the current situation. He's what I call a 'fearless model builder'; he takes chances but more importantly, he just keeps at it till something works.

    Foreigner's!

    David,
    "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey, John!

      If you're in a position to do so, how about working up a swap deal with me for one of your 1/72 COLLINS hulls?

      David,
      "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks guys..much appreciate it.

        David, I won't promise you a hull at this stage.
        I don't own the lower mold half and I assurred Allan at APS that this will be a one boat project for now. That said, let me get this sucker running and I'll talk to Allan.

        Whilst its a pretty basic upper hull, I am very happy with how my first efforts of master / mold / hull turned out. The lower hull half needs some alignment surgery to mate properly with the new upper hull. I am capable of doing this as per the OTW Trafalgar (my HMS Trenchant) required it. I am of the view that I might convince Allan after I do that surgery, to allow me to use the lower "corrected" GRP hull then as a master and make a new lower hull mold and hull. If he does so I'll ask him if he minds if I make 2, then David a hull will be yours and we won't be swapping anything - you have done enough over the years to help me. But I respect Allan's property rights and will respect his decision on this.

        I must say that whilst I have been in the sub and target game for 15 years I never up until now had the guts to make a sub hull. All of my scratch building efforts have been target hulls and I have pretty much been a sub assembler. If I can get the photos of my efforts making the master and mods I did on this, I'll happily post them here on the Subdriver's forum.


        Best
        John
        John Slater

        Sydney Australia

        You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
        Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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        • #5
          John,

          Absolutely!! .... secure Allen's permission first. You (unlike so many in this game) understand and respect the proprietary aspects of a producers work. And so do I. It's up to Allen.

          You'll take something in return (if we secure permission) for a COLLINS kit (no matter how basic -- two hull halves and a sail would be fine with me) AND LIKE IT!

          ******!

          Hell yes, A proper 'how to' of master and tool making, coupled with production of the upper hull piece, would be a welcome and vital piece of knowledge for everyone here, myself included.

          You did good!

          David,
          "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by junglelord
            I look forward to that and I am really pumped about my own possiblities to become a master modelers apprentice. I have more confidence that this hobby is all about problem solving and learning how to accomplish new skills as you grow. A hobby that contiunes to keep you sharp and aware and inventive.

            I want a few machine stations, drill press, lathe, would be nice and a good clamp....the right tool for the right job...thanks for pumping me up.
            I'll drink to THAT!
            That my friend is one of the reasons I try to keep tabs on what David's doing.
            I don't want to sound like a Merriman suck hole, but I know no other master builder as generous with his time and passing on his successes and some experience of failures too with others. After 15 years I am still learning and enjoying the hobby. No reason why that can't continue. Good for you being pumped up. I for one am positive that anyone can achieve their goals if you want it badly enough. And as my dear old mum told me from an earlier age....never ever give up on something that you want or is worthwhile and never ever let anyone stop you from learning.

            best
            John
            John Slater

            Sydney Australia

            You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
            Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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            Comment


            • #7
              David,
              sorry to say this is going to be a one boat deal only. Allan has told me for now he is uncertain about how he might progress this at a later date with a perhaps new kit, and as such he is happy for me to have as per my original plan just a boat for myself right now.

              If he does a kit in the future - a boat will be coming your way.

              Best
              John
              John Slater

              Sydney Australia

              You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
              Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



              sigpic

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Slats View Post
                David,
                sorry to say this is going to be a one boat deal only. Allan has told me for now he is uncertain about how he might progress this at a later date with a perhaps new kit, and as such he is happy for me to have as per my original plan just a boat for myself right now.

                If he does a kit in the future - a boat will be coming your way.

                Best
                John
                No problem at all. And extend to Allen my sincerest good wishes with the project.

                (Damn!)

                David,
                "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well if a kit does eventuate I'd buy one anyway in addition to getting the one I am working on working. I love these subs.

                  I am very proud of my country's submarines that we decided to build from scratch. We have faced many problems and trials and enormous cost over runs, but IMO we now have the finest diesel subs ever made. Sure we don't have speed and range of a nuke, but these units do a great job. They are the largest conventionally powered submarines in the world and now extremely quiet. It just a shame we are so short on manning. Submariners down here can earn big bucks - thought about enlisting last year as an old fart, but the deployments are a young mans game. The wife would kill me.

                  The thing I love about these subs is there are not just coastal and shallow water platforms (which most conventional boats are used for), the Collins is a long patrol blue water platform too, and works well when put up against its bigger modern nuke brothers.

                  J
                  John Slater

                  Sydney Australia

                  You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                  Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The only other RC Collins I know of in a scale close to 1/72, has been built by Dr David Batagol and Jim Russell here in Australia. Those boats are not quite 1/72 - but they are very very close.

                    Of interest with David's Collins is that its one of the most stable steady and manourvable boats I have seen, and yet he drives it with no electronic leveller!

                    I have never seen a RC sub (other than this one) without a leveller not porpoise (even slightly), but it does beg the question about whether there is something special about X fin setups, or maybe its just the luck of his setup that he does not need one?

                    J
                    John Slater

                    Sydney Australia

                    You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                    Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Slats View Post
                      Of interest with David's Collins is that its one of the most stable steady and manourvable boats I have seen, and yet he drives it with no electronic leveller!

                      I have never seen a RC sub (other than this one) without a leveller not porpoise (even slightly), but it does beg the question about whether there is something special about X fin setups, or maybe its just the luck of his setup that he does not need one?

                      J
                      I remember reading something on RCgroups about operating X-tail boats without APC. They owners claim they don't need them. It maybe that their boats are so well balanced that they can overcome the dynamic forces of water moving over the hull during submerged running.
                      Make it simple, make strong, make it work!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        David M.. is there science behind the X fin and stability that would mean a leveler is superfluous ?

                        J
                        John Slater

                        Sydney Australia

                        You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                        Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Slats View Post
                          David M.. is there science behind the X fin and stability that would mean a leveler is superfluous ?

                          J

                          The claim, even suggestion, that X-tail boats are more dynamically stable than cruciform configured boats is total bull-****. Not in my experience. X-tailed submarines -- because of the accumulated force of all four, not just two, control surfaces working a specific axis -- are, if anything, more difficult to keep in a straight line than submarines with cruciform configured appendages.

                          It takes a very skilled Driver to operate a submerged model submarine without the aid of an artificial stabilizing device working the stern planes. I've driven both types; with, and without an APC in the stern plane loop. An X-tail boat is very maneuverable -- it is also very 'touchy'.
                          Attached Files
                          Last edited by He Who Shall Not Be Named; 02-19-2009, 06:58 AM.
                          "... well, that takes care of Jorgenson's theory!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks David, a leveler will be fitted.

                            J
                            John Slater

                            Sydney Australia

                            You would not steal a wallet so don't steal people's livelihood.
                            Think of that before your buy "cheap" pirated goods or download others work protected by copyright. Theft is theft.



                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Merriman View Post
                              The claim, even suggestion, that X-tail boats are more dynamically stable than cruciform configured boats is total bull-****. Not in my experience. X-tailed submarines -- because of the accumulated force of all four, not just two, control surfaces working a specific axis -- are, if anything, more difficult to keep in a straight line than submarines with cruciform configured appendages.

                              It takes a very skilled Driver to operate a submerged model submarine without the aid of an artificial stabilizing device working the stern planes. I've driven both types; with, and without an APC in the stern plane loop. An X-tail boat is very maneuverable -- it is also very 'touchy'.
                              I would like to transfer this information to my other thread on various designs and submarine performance.

                              Nice set of pictures of various designs. I think the Seaview would be the odd man out being a science fiction design with only half a X tail design due to the Cadillac fins, the Manta fins pushing down and that wedge head, certainly like no Military design. Of course having a RC Seaview has been a childhood dream of mine. 30 years in the making. I cannot wait to fullfill that dream. I remember wondering as a boy, that they should make a full scale Seaview. I figured it must be the best design...being young and all, impressionable as a boy in the late 60's, that this wonderful design must be the killer sub design of all designs. Of course that is not true at all and in fact the head makes it an ineffecent design, with such a huge bow wake and the cadillac fins are not good for fast turns. Oh well some dreams are just fancyfull ideas of a young boy carried over into adult hood. Enter Dave Merriman and the Seaview that handels extremely well. Large turning radius, but seems to take a straight line without nose diving. Nothing like the Skipjack model, which could run circles around the Seaview....


                              That is an interesting point of observation about the need for a ADF . I have not taken my Robbe SeaWolf V2 out yet. Its Maiden voyage will be this spring. I will have an ADF by then and I can put it in either the SeaView or the SeaWolf.
                              Last edited by junglelord; 02-19-2009, 05:36 PM.

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