But wait it is one more Revell Gato...!!!

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

David, Pictures?

Can't right now, computer is on the fritz.

David

[alad61]

The motors are rated for 12-volt. And no harm running them at 7-volts or so. But, if you have already put a voltage limiting resistor in line with the power leads to the LPB (it's motor rated for 6-volt operation), take it out of the circuit or your blower will take forever to push the water out.

Good looking work so far, Alec.

David

My GATO takes a full minute-and-a-half to discharge ballast water. You're using 7.4-volts. Those are 12-volt motors! Put the recommended battery in there (and put a 22 Ohm resister in series with one of the MPC power wires so you don't fry the LPB motor), and dial down your throttle end-point to about 33% ahead and astern.

I operated my GATO over the weekend for Harbor Fest visitors and it was the hit of our clubs demonstration program.

David

Ok which is it, run the 7.2 or not?

I chose to go with 7.2 so it would drive the motors and run the lpb without the need to step down the voltage. Also with the 'quirks' I was having with the lipos in my seaview such as overiding the esc when charged to full capacity and finally ending with a fried esc and shorted lipo last saturday. Though I suspect the esc was a bit gltchy from day one and I know lipos are the new battery technology but I personaly feel more comfortable in my choice to run nmhi's. I reckon I got over an hour in the lake last saturday plus as much again with bench tests and the pack still had plenty of juice.

I can appreciate why the Gato was a hit. I don't think my seaview got more than a casual comment at boondal Saturday.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

The SEAVIEW disaster -- and I can call a total melt-down of the ESC and subsequent destruction of an expensive battery pack, followed by a flooding casualty, nothing less -- was likely caused by a break-down across the FET's, a direct short.

I know this is locking the barn door after the cows escape, but put a quick-blow type, 15-20 Ampere fuse between the battery and ESC. Since starting to use the brand, about five years ago, I've had three MTronik Viper Marine-10's do this. None while underway, thank God! Mike and I contacted the factory and soon after they dropped that model and we now recommend their 15 for the larger boats.

If the 7-volt pack works for you in your GATO, then fine and dandy... why mess with a good thing? If you later go to the higher-voltage pack, put a 22 Ohm resister in line with the MPC power wires -- that's all. The rest of the system will be fine.

Yes, the GATO is maximum eye-candy. I too found that it got the oooh's and aaah's at public events over the SEAVIEW and other models. Nothing as majestic as a 1/72 (or larger) GATO on the surface at flank or cruising along at periscope depth. And what a stable boat; a joy to drive.

Here's someone else running a GATO with the Caswell-Merriman system aboard:

http://s181686668.onlinehome.us/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=10993

David

[alad61]

Thanks David.

I managed to take it down to our local pond yesterday arvo after work for a test. She still lists just a tad and I need to fix the port prop as I did the starboard one. Our little lake was full of that fairy floss weed / alge near the shallows which entwinned the running gear so much that it looked like a swamp monster... still the little trip showed me how & what so no foul done. Hopefully Saturday will let me get to the bigger lakes near by.

[alad61]

Sadly after a fairly good start to my afternoon on the lake with my GATO I came home with boat stand, tool box & transmiter only. For the sub is now resting in mud/silt or weed...:o:'( I'm not really sure what went wrong. One minute I was cruising at just over periscope depth trying not to porpoise to much then it nosed down at full throttle. I threw it into reverse let the controls go neutral and started cycling the emergancy gas but no show. Not even an air bubble.... we went out in the little rescue boat & using poles, nets and hooks for an hour. We muddied the waters & brought lots of weed up but alas no sub. So now I guess I wont be sailing either boat come my birthday in 10 days unless the esc for my Seaview arrives early.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Oh, no!

It's mask, snorkel and fins time. Get into the water and find her!

Few things sader than an empty boat stand!

David

[Anuci]

These things happen, Ensign Alec.

As a suggestion and with not seeing the area you were sailing, do not assume that where you last seen the boat will be where it is presently laying.
You're going to need to perform a grid search, hopefully with the help of a friend who as a spotter from the shore line can help keep your search stay on the straight and narrow.
Methodically cross sectioning the immediate area you were last sailing and beyond, search both vertically and horrizontally. Scuba Diving
These boats can sometimes travel a substantial distance away if not obstructed, unless you are positive of it being stuck in the mud where last seen.
It's not always wise to assume, but best to leave an open mind, and think out of the box.
The one good thing you've got going for you is that you won't be feeling around for an ALLIGATOR!!
You'll be fine.

Oh! and Good Luck.

Al,

[trout]

Oh, I am so sorry to hear of this. I have confidence that you will recover it. Al gave some sound advice, be methodical and patient. I type this knowing I could be next. Big pond hopefully this weekend.

[Anuci]

Those recommendations previously mentioned can all be found on the Meriman/Caswell Knowledge Forum. Know the area you sail the best as possible. (eg) Ponds with soft muddy bottoms are difficult to break free from should your boat end up resting there.
I believe all the necessary procedures for recovery are listed as part of a Cabal report, based on past experiences by those who have ventured into the Devil's Triangle only to lose a boat to the depths of their local pond. It happens, only a matter of time. Some are lucky to make a recovery, and for others a costly learning lesson unfortunately.

Although at times difficult if not impossible to find, a pond with reasonably clear water is your best bet. However, if this again is not possible, then try running your boat parallel to the shore line where the water is not too deep ,and hopefully more transparent, should things take a turn for the worst.

Enough said about that, however, in retrospect this is why I've always been in favor of the installation of some sort of Emergency Buoy System.
Although some may feel there are sufficient backup systems in place, I would sure like to think if all else fails a marker/buoy floating to the surface might better enable one to locate a lost sub. Food for thought!
Missiles and torps are sweet, but if possible, an Emergency Buoy system is the way to go. IMHO

[alad61]

Thanks for the words and advice guys. Al I am so glad there are no Alligators to compound any search. As for a grid pattern two of us pretty much did that till the sun was low in the sky. Yes I would love to find clear water but many of the smaller lakes n ponds are just the opposite where I live. David I did briefly consider stripping off to the underclothes and jump in but all though the lake at Boondal is 'fresh' it is not considered a safe swimming environment. So costly as the sub is it can be replaced I on the other hand can not should an injury/illness arrive by being emotionally foolish. If nothing else my near tragic accident last year has changed my perspective a bit. I'm not saying I wasn't ****** off about it nor was I resigned that that would be it. I had already made my mind up that I would be out there and searching for it at every opportunity and I had also begun planning a replacement Gato.

But the best thing I did was leave my mobile number with the two committee members who are out there every Saturday. One of whom is the current president, Jim Russell who is also a model submariner. It seems that from that conversation with him last night. He went out to the lake this morning at a very early time and took it upon himself to dredge for my sub. From there I recieved a call on my mobile at around 8.00am to ask if I wished to purchase a slightly muddy black n grey submarine. Yes he had found it on his second pass with his dredge hook and that it was pretty much undamaged. Without even thinking I rearranged the days schedual to visit my mate and his wife who just got out of hospital. I left a message bumping our eta back a bit and gathered ourselves, with a gift card and number of instant lottery tickets as a thank you, to detour past Jim's home to retrieve the rescued sub.

Of course I left my tools at home but as soon as we got to Gary's I opened it up took out the sd and popped off the motor & battery bulk heads. There was about 5 millilitres of water in the motor end and a bit in the battery space too. One of the out riggers and wire leading to the aerial mount had snapped of and the opposite one was loose. Since I had already fixed these twice with handling the sub I decided to get rid of them. Yes David you were right and some of the paint work on the front planes has crazed a bit, easy fix. Other than that the main hull is in pretty good shape. I was more concerned about the sd and it having water in the dry compartments. But it did sit in about 3.6 meters of water for over 16 hours... Once I got home it was all disassembled on the bench. I could see condensation in the adf so I slit open the shrink wrap case and gave it a spray with pure alcohol to help disperse any water I did the same for the receiver too. I prefer alcohol for this as it helps get rid of moisture and doesn't leave an oily film, I also used a hair dryer to help them dry.

With the electrics separated and drying I then went over the sd itself, in truth the water in the dry spaces bugged me because I tested the fully assembled sd for leaks prior to the first trim test in the tub. Also there was a fine film of silt over parts of it that needed cleaning up, even though I hosed everything thoroughly when we got home. Good thing too as I washed out two small yabbies (shrimps) and a guppy that were trapped in the lower hull. Anyway looking over the sd under a bright light I noticed that a couple of the screws securing the rear ballast bulk head were sitting proud of the tube. as was one on the forward ballast bulk head. I figured this was what let the water in but how did they get so loose? The other oddity was that the emergency gas tank was bone dry not even a vapor. Noting these I then put back all the now dry electrics. I also took a good close look at the servos but they were all dry as a bone. So with everything plugged back into the receiver I attached a 7.2 800mh battery pack to it switched on my tx then the sd waited for that fateful zzzt sound but instead the esc cycled up, the servos twitched to neutral and the adf responded to a tilt in axis and each servo then responded as it should have to signals from the tx, so there sat one very happy and relieved Alec.

Still the loose bulkhead screws and empty gas tank needed investigating. So I went through the test of loosing radio signal to see what happened. What I found was that the second stage of the adfs fail-safe worked but the third stage didn't seem too, which meant that the lpb kept running. So I went through the adf set up and fail-safe set ups again as well as looking at how I had tuned in the ballast on my tx. Because I only have a 6 channel tx I have got the gas blow & lpb on the same channel. What I did though was fine tune the point when to throw on the lpb so that in the third stage of fail safe the servo didn't go back into a proper neutral. This led me to believe the lpb ran continuously till the battery pack was dry. With nothing else running off the battery that little pump must have been going like the clappers. So I reckon that the continuous vibration through the sd walls for how ever many hours till the battery went flat was enough to loosen the screws and add to that the additional water pressure at 12 or so feet was enough to let the water seep into the dry spaces. The only tests left to do now is take out the valve stick on a hose and dunk the sd in the tub and test it for leaks and also test the loss of radio under water as well, which I'll do tomorrow after work.

I also rearranged the configuration of my channels and servos as I believe that how I had it set up originally may have contributing factor as well, so I guess I'll see how the new way works out.

[MFR1964]

Wow Alec,

There you've got a lucky escape, and still running electronics as a bonus, glad you've got her back, there is nothing more depressing than losing your sub.
You did well to find out the bugs, did you find the exact thing why you lost control?, like Al said, a emergency bouy isn't a bad option, you now understand why most of my boats have one, it will save the day, unless she is on the bottom upside down.
As for the water creeping inside the SD, water is nasty stuff, it will always find a way to get in during very long periods deep underwater, since our usual dives don't last that long and deep it will not matter for us.
So don't be surpriced to find water inside, even if your SD came through the leaktest/pressure test, at that kind of depths it's a different ballgame, good luck with the next sail.

Greetings Manfred.

[He Who Shall Not Be Named]

Wonderful news, Alec! Wonderful!

You have powerful good friends there -- treat 'em nice!

Now, as to the loose screws on the bulkheads: They don't matter -- they penetrate the ballast tank portion of the cylinder, and could not contribute to a flooding casualty. They are, however, a loose fit in their respective bulkhead resin foundations, but jam up tight within the counter-sunk holes of the cylinder. When hydrostatic force squeezed the cylinder to a smaller diameter (the retaining friction between screw head and cylinder relieved) the LPB vibration you suggested as an agent of screw un-screwing was free to do its work.

By the way, the running LPB would have been your beacon had you stuck your head under the water -- you can't make out direction (velocity of sound in water is too quick for our tiny brains to make out the phase-shift between ears), but by moving around and sticking your ears in the water, you can discern amplitude -- the means of pin-pointing the location of your sunken submarine. You keep dipping your noggin into the water till the sound is the loudest -- X marks the spot.

Your device de-watering and preservation methodology was spot on. Congratulations, Doctor: Frankenstein lives again! ... the Villager's will be so pleased.

Was there weeds in the operating area? Did you find any weed remnants in the props, observed during your postmortem? I suggest your boat got anchored to the bottom either by weeds or a discarded fishing tackle

Congratulations, Alec!

David

[trout]

Alec,
Cheers! That is so cool that she is salvaged and everything is saved! Manfred makes a really good point about depth and pressure. The fact that you ONLY had little water in your wtc is amazing and a testimonial to the design and care given.
I am excited and feel for you. Look forward to hearing about your next mission. Happy sailing!
peace,
tom

[alad61]

Thanks guys.

David I reckon Sandy has the powerfull friends more than I do but a quiet thanks to upstairs was said. As for the runaway lpb That only became evident during the postmortem and now you have mentioned location by sound. I remember reading somewhere about a failsafe chip that emits a high frequency beep. As for dunking my noggin under water... not in that pond!! LOL But an extendable tubex with a smal cone or funnel at each end should work a a crude hydrophone. Manfred and Tom I should have my little underwater camera running again for the next outing so I can do a trouble free (fingers crossed) video log.

[alad61]

Was there weeds in the operating area? Did you find any weed remnants in the props, observed during your postmortem? I suggest your boat got anchored to the bottom either by weeds or a discarded fishing tackle
David

The out side was cleaned up by Jim by the time I picked it up from him. But he did say the props, planes and rudder was packed in more mud than weed.